Class system?? Will the poor be represented?

[Rorarii]

One major flaw with RTW was the lack of a adequate class system. There should have been Royal, Aristocratic,working, poor and slave population groups, with different soldier types only being able to be recruited from each class ... this is historically accurate but didn't happen! .. why?? There were many conflicts between these classes in the ancient world which extended into the medieval era.

Adding a class system will greatly enhance the game, giving it a more realistic flavour. Knights only being recruited from the Aristocracy, bowmen from the working class and milita from poor are a rough example of the class system in action. Each settlement would have a certain number of each population class (as in reality), with each empire sharing power between these classes to varying degrees .. with revolt just under the surface in lands where power and wealth sharing were at extreme lows. This is where religions come in to sooth or organise the angry mobs.

I don't think you can overestimate enough the effects the class system had in these early societies and how they effected history. Please put more work into the class system ..

R

[Barbarian-Bob]

I would love to see a class system, but I don't know if they have any plans for it. At least it's simulated somewhat with the new recruitment system. You can only recruit a few knights and alot of peasants, but I agree, it's not really a subsitute. But then, how much time should they spend on making new features like this?

[Dave of the West]

There isn't a class system, but there is unit pools, which is damn close.

[smoke]

I dunno what a class-system would add to the game. It's Total War, not Total Demgraphy.

[Boudicca]

A class system would certainly add complexity to the game and guarantee that armies being recruited do not only consist of Royal "uber" knights - because they are simply not available.

Futhermore - if you'd force too much of the aristorcracy into the army, you might eventually dry out the source of your wealth.
The question remains though, if that is necessary for a TW-Game.

[Eird-Way]

Oh, this is gonna be gold when people start modding the engine back to the classical period. For one, it will make the Marian reforms mean what they really should.

This adds a whole new balance to the game. Factions can be balanced more as a whole (instead of X Attack = Y Cost) if there are more gradations in unit availability [time has shown that prohibitive cost is not a good way of preventing, for example, armies of triarii]. This is something Cossacks did really well, with huge differences in unit building time to represent recruitment pools. Some nations had units that weren't very good or very cheap, but you sure could have a hell of a lot of them. And, although I don't approve of this, it's how some games excuse the inclusion of uber units - there is simply an arbitrary limit on how many you can have (warhammer does this throughout, although I don't really like that game). It would also help us reflect the difference in required population per soldier -- more "civilized" armies require far more retainers, and can field fewer men.

It would be a huge step toward making the AI (and the cynical player) produce balanced, historically-proportioned armies.

[Sosobra]

It would add lots of depth but could be too much micromanagement for a TW style game.

[Kanfoosh]

The pool system is just fine, the class system would add too much complexity and pretty much ruin the fun.

[Rorarii]

The pool system is just fine, the class system would add too much complexity and pretty much ruin the fun.

wrong, half the fun is creating your own society .. like that empire building game that was popular a few years back.

An example relating to the ancient period could be ..

If you wanted a roman republic you wouldn't have any royal class with the aristocrats ruling. They and the working class would be only ones able to join the army.

If you wanted a royal dynasty then you'd have royalty but no aristocrats. Next down would be the professional military class (I suspect?) .. then the rest.

A greek democracy would have no royalty and the aristocrates would have to share power with the working class and possibly the poor??? All classes would be expected to fight.

Each class would have the following attributes - power, military service and taxation


R

[The Messenger]

In the game Crusader Kings they represent the classes, but what can you really do with it in a TW game? In that game it was just that if a class had more power it would change the units you get. Like you would get less knights and more pikemen if the peasants had more power, for example. Actually thats like how you describe but idk if it would fit into this kind of game... besides the citizen pool. Which actually isn't a bad idea. That way someone can't waste tons of knights.

nvm, that is actually a great idea now that I think of it. However getting the AI to use it in a smart way would be difficult probably.

[Beiss]

Can anyone explain the pool system? It sounds interesting.

[Dave of the West]

Can anyone explain the pool system? It sounds interesting.

From what I understand, we no longer have one unit per-turn(well, cities do.) Castles can recruit multiple units a turn, however, you can't just recruit any old unit at any time. There will always be a healthy pool of peasants to call on, and you could theoretically field masses of them.

However, there are only so many of the good units, and I imagine Knights will be rarely seen in the pools, probably in small numbers and probably taking a long time to return.

In short, you can get masses of crappy units, some medium/good units and very few uber units when you recruit.

It stops armies of the same, mega-units appearing.

........I think.

[Beiss]

Hm. Yeah. Sounds kinda like the idea I had. i.e. Good! I can't wait to try it out.

[Kanfoosh]

Thats just your opinion, i would find it VERY boring