Difference betewwn VH and Legendary.

[Cayo_Julio_Cesar]

I keep reading that there is no difference other than the forced batle UI and the unique save.
I believe that's wrong.
First on Legendary the AI can transform its ashigaru into samurai at will (so long as you haven't seen thouse ashigaru before) , and very early in the game, which means having samurai in your army is a must. I don't think they can on very hard, because you see ashigaru armies well into mid game, they do have ridiculous ammount of money so they will have more samurai with little provinces, but on legendary you see them with full stacks at turn 10.
Second, in battles, while on theory the same as very hard, I find that they play much better, they know how to manuever their cavalry very well, to avoid your spears and target for your generals, and their ashigaru seem to have infinite moral.
Also on legendary, once you manage to route them, well that's it , because since they are faster than you and aparanently have much more stamina, they always outrun your pursuing units, this doesnt seem to haven on very hard.
And I play VH with the realistic UI and still notice it is way easier than Legendary.
Your thoughts?

[CptAustus]

I think half of it is in your head. People have cheked the data in the game, and the AI doesnt have any bigger bonuses (battle stats related) between VH and Legendary. I'm not sure about the samurai thing either, I remember trying a VH campaign before but it was... boring, so I abandoned it by turn 20, so I cant tell for sure.

[Cayo_Julio_Cesar]

Well the samurai thing is pretty much confirmed, some dude even made a mod to "fix it" (effectively turning Legendary into VH)
As for the battle things, maybe you are right, however I do notice some morale differences, maybe their generals get boosts?

[DeliCiousTZM]

I keep reading that there is no difference other than the forced batle UI and the unique save.
I believe that's wrong.
First on Legendary the AI can transform its ashigaru into samurai at will (so long as you haven't seen thouse ashigaru before) , and very early in the game, which means having samurai in your army is a must. I don't think they can on very hard, because you see ashigaru armies well into mid game, they do have ridiculous ammount of money so they will have more samurai with little provinces, but on legendary you see them with full stacks at turn 10.
Second, in battles, while on theory the same as very hard, I find that they play much better, they know how to manuever their cavalry very well, to avoid your spears and target for your generals, and their ashigaru seem to have infinite moral.
Also on legendary, once you manage to route them, well that's it , because since they are faster than you and aparanently have much more stamina, they always outrun your pursuing units, this doesnt seem to haven on very hard.
And I play VH with the realistic UI and still notice it is way easier than Legendary.
Your thoughts?

The difference between Legendary is this, Realism battles,Auto saving features,slightly more money for the AI and a conscious decision by the AI to make more units.

If Legendary AI has stronger units it most be that I'm a god, since routing AI units is no biggie. And my viewers would tell you im the laziest Legendary player they have seen.

[Grimreapo]

The difference between Legendary is this, Realism battles,Auto saving features,slightly more money for the AI and a conscious decision by the AI to make more units.

If Legendary AI has stronger units it most be that I'm a god, since routing AI units is no biggie. And my viewers would tell you im the laziest Legendary player they have seen.

I know its outside of the help forum but I sheeply ask for help on FOTS, I've done VH on every total war, can do legendary with every faction in S2 and on ROTS but I struggle winning with the Choshu long campaign victory. For some reason the whole naval aspect throws me off and I struggle to find the perfect balance of having a land army and being to to field a naval that is able to defend my long coast from bombardment (the AI can get ships for a crazy low price), I can win with the Shogun factions as they have easy access to in land provinces but Choshu just feels so vulnerable...

If you can help then that is wonderful as it will give me an excuse for not getting the newest crusader kings 2 DLC...

[DeliCiousTZM]

I know its outside of the help forum but I sheeply ask for help on FOTS, I've done VH on every total war, can do legendary with every faction in S2 and on ROTS but I struggle winning with the Choshu long campaign victory. For some reason the whole naval aspect throws me off and I struggle to find the perfect balance of having a land army and being to to field a naval that is able to defend my long coast from bombardment (the AI can get ships for a crazy low price), I can win with the Shogun factions as they have easy access to in land provinces but Choshu just feels so vulnerable...

If you can help then that is wonderful as it will give me an excuse for not getting the newest crusader kings 2 DLC...

This is a Long FOTS campaign on legendary, as Obama. I show a lot of tricks and things that will definitely help you kick Legendary's ass.

I know, I know, I'm just saying that banging on about it is weak. I'm still torn up about the whole achievements thing, I have my Xbox for that.

Look brick if all your gonna do is rip on Legendary and tell everyone you got more Shogun2 hours, please find another thread. Nobody is forcing you to be here. The topic is Legendary.

[Plan C]

This is a Long FOTS campaign on legendary, as Obama. I show a lot of tricks and things that will definitely help you kick Legendary's ass.


Look brick if all your gonna do is rip on Legendary and tell everyone you got more Shogun2 hours, please find another thread. Nobody is forcing you to be here. The topic is Legendary.

Meh, you're probably right. Godspeed.

[Plan C]

This is a Long FOTS campaign on legendary, as Obama. I show a lot of tricks and things that will definitely help you kick Legendary's ass.


Look brick if all your gonna do is rip on Legendary and tell everyone you got more Shogun2 hours, please find another thread. Nobody is forcing you to be here. The topic is Legendary.

I am frickin loving the videos btw - fantastic job +rep mate.

[Grimreapo]

This is a Long FOTS campaign on legendary, as Obama. I show a lot of tricks and things that will definitely help you kick Legendary's ass.

Bit of a delay as I was I leading Pisa to glory but its what shocking how much we play alike (using Taxes like you did and focusing on income tech) but I would like to note some things:
1) I could win with Obama as it has access to decent inland provinces and that +2 repression is godlike but Choshu has 3 directions to go in, the North East getting the dirt poor provinces (although one has a goldmine) with a long coast that cannot be defended, the south east coast which is richer but you risk pissing off Tosa leading to a bloody war or go west into Kyushu but once you have conquered that there has massive pro-Shogun power blocks on the mainland. So its hard to know which way to expand...

2) Only watched the first video but my main problem is with the naval aspect, with smarts you can use levies to counter Guard units but I cant say the same thing with naval battles and the AI gets better ships for a very low price (again, a roughly 50% difference). The largest problem for me is the under developed campaign rules for ships as its hard to stop any any fleet bombarding you provinces even if you just focus on defending a few, it roughly as grating as the new DMC game that has no "lock on" and it does not seem bad at first but once you turn up the difficulty its annoying...

3) One thing that I did notice was you held off from modernizing and it seemed to be pretty effective, do you think this would work for an Imperial faction as well?

4) I think I was overspending on building upgrades at the start of the game, is there a good guide to find out what is cost effective at the start?

I can do pretty while for a while but in the end I just get ground down by the AI ship spam...

[DeliCiousTZM]

Bit of a delay as I was I leading Pisa to glory but its what shocking how much we play alike (using Taxes like you did and focusing on income tech) but I would like to note some things:
1) I could win with Obama as it has access to decent inland provinces and that +2 repression is godlike but Choshu has 3 directions to go in, the North East getting the dirt poor provinces (although one has a goldmine) with a long coast that cannot be defended, the south east coast which is richer but you risk pissing off Tosa leading to a bloody war or go west into Kyushu but once you have conquered that there has massive pro-Shogun power blocks on the mainland. So its hard to know which way to expand...

2) Only watched the first video but my main problem is with the naval aspect, with smarts you can use levies to counter Guard units but I cant say the same thing with naval battles and the AI gets better ships for a very low price (again, a roughly 50% difference). The largest problem for me is the under developed campaign rules for ships as its hard to stop any any fleet bombarding you provinces even if you just focus on defending a few, it roughly as grating as the new DMC game that has no "lock on" and it does not seem bad at first but once you turn up the difficulty its annoying...

3) One thing that I did notice was you held off from modernizing and it seemed to be pretty effective, do you think this would work for an Imperial faction as well?

4) I think I was overspending on building upgrades at the start of the game, is there a good guide to find out what is cost effective at the start?

I can do pretty while for a while but in the end I just get ground down by the AI ship spam...

With Chosu you wanna expand to Aki/Iwami(Goldmine proviince) There you wanna freeze and move into Kyusho and secure the three golden kings(The three Very fertile farm regions in north west). Early on you wanna stetch your income to the limit in upkeep to expand outwards as rapidly as possible, if you do not you are in risk of stagnating. Early on you typical wanna make police stations and ins. Ishin shishi or shinsegumi are important to get and level up by just sitting in your unruly provinces.

Things you can safely spend money on early

• Fertile/Very fertile upgrades
• First level of cottage industry/Inn/port
• Army for outward expansion

Things you don't wanna spend money on early

• Fortress/City
• Any upgrades to traditional/Cadet school/police station
• Specialty unless it is a gold mine or export industry
• Agent actions
• Tradeport/military port

[Auditor]

I keep reading that there is no difference other than the forced batle UI and the unique save.
I believe that's wrong.
First on Legendary the AI can transform its ashigaru into samurai at will (so long as you haven't seen thouse ashigaru before) , and very early in the game, which means having samurai in your army is a must. I don't think they can on very hard, because you see ashigaru armies well into mid game, they do have ridiculous ammount of money so they will have more samurai with little provinces, but on legendary you see them with full stacks at turn 10.
Second, in battles, while on theory the same as very hard, I find that they play much better, they know how to manuever their cavalry very well, to avoid your spears and target for your generals, and their ashigaru seem to have infinite moral.
Also on legendary, once you manage to route them, well that's it , because since they are faster than you and aparanently have much more stamina, they always outrun your pursuing units, this doesnt seem to haven on very hard.
And I play VH with the realistic UI and still notice it is way easier than Legendary.
Your thoughts?

I feel absolutely the same way... On legendary AI is somehow much harder than on VH... I have 1200+ hours of gameplay time so dont tell me it is in my head...

[DeMolay]

They also transform their ashigarus into samurais in very hard when under the FOW , he probably felt a placebo effect

You can easily see the differences between the two difficulties using PFM (check "campaign_difficulty_handicap_effects") , basically , very small differences between the two modes like said The Monetary

From my experience in Very hard , they'll have a bit less troops and slightly less money than legendary after 20-30 turns , clans do not take off as quickly generally , but it depends the campaign

[Cruzz]

They also transform their ashigarus into samurais in very hard when under the FOW , he probably felt a placebo effect

You can easily see the differences between the two difficulties using PFM (check "campaign_difficulty_handicap_effects") , basically , very small differences between the two modes like said The Monetary

From my experience in Very hard , they'll have a bit less troops and slightly less money than legendary after 20-30 turns , clans do not take off as quickly generally , but it depends the campaign

It's not like they HAVE to place all modifiers in those files, they could have some evil scripts lurking somewhere else that changed things.

Can't really say I would've found very hard and legendary that different AI wise, but I've only played 2 VH games in total and after that just legendaries.

As far as the magical transformation of ashigaru to samurai, honestly can't say I would've seen this happen. But I haven't really been looking at all either, seeing how I play legendary and thus can't (easily) save-scum into a situation where I could even test it. If the AI does do it, it certainly doesn't overabuse the feature because it tends to have far too many ashigaru even lategame.

[DeliCiousTZM]

They also transform their ashigarus into samurais in very hard when under the FOW

This does not happen. Some AI's walk around with ashigaru hordes forever while others get samurai structures early and put all their money into a samurai army. One thing i do know tho is that the AI is on a timer it deplete its early economic boost and gets stuck with a full stack + 3 units that empties his purse.
I know this tho when i play Solo i only go Legendary but when it comes to playing Head to Head online. I stick to Hard it seems like the most balanced mode, and it feels so good to just rush the AI and eat him up om nom nom.

I have a room up right now called 1v1 Experts, come hang out Legendary players. 2013-01-09

[DeMolay]

Are you sure ? i thought they used to do that in my campaigns , also the creator of TROM mod ( Yarkis ) had made a no cheating AI mod and had shown an example in his thread : http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=519382
Perhaps it has been patched since though , maybe they only do it in legendary now ?

[Cayo_Julio_Cesar]

Are you sure ? i thought they used to do that in my campaigns , also the creator of TROM mod ( Yarkis ) had made a no cheating AI mod and had shown an example in his thread : http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=519382
Perhaps it has been patched since though , maybe they only do it in legendary now ?

Thanks DeMolay, I was refering to that thread on my second post and looking for it as a prove but couldn't find it for some reason.

[DeliCiousTZM]

according to CA the AI and the player are basically equal on Hard.

[daniu]

according to CA the AI and the player are equal on Hard.

They're not, and I don't think CA ever said so. What I did remember them saying is that even on Normal, there are some modifiers (in both ways actually, i.e. both in favor of the AI and the player - I created a mod removing them); but there definitely are modifiers on Hard.

[DeliCiousTZM]

Jack Lusted
"On normal in Shogun II the AI actually gets some slight penalties, not any bonuses"
Now on Hard the AI gets some small bonuses but i assume its as equal as it gets.

But i will change equal to "basically" equal because we can never be perfectly equal now can we.

[Szlachta]

The AI gets recruitment, upkeep and recruitment cost modifiers, which allows them to spam and spam fast.