Regarding the Escalating Situation in Northern Ireland over the Flag Issue

[Zipzopdippidybopbop]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20940126

No doubt many of you have at least heard of the recent flag issue troubling Northern Ireland. If not, then I'll recap; Before Christmas, Belfast City Council voted to remove the British flag from City Hall; due to a compromise proposed by members of the Alliance Party the vote was changed, to allow it to fly on certain days of the year. Since that vote was passed there have been large scale protests and sporadic violence from members of the loyalist community, which has only begun to escalate in scale and intensity. The protesters wish to see the flag restored.

Moving on; the past 5 nights have been pretty intense here; police have resorted to using rubber rounds again on rioters. Personally, I was initially sympathetic to the flag issue (being from the Unionist community myself), however the rioters actions are becoming more aggressive, and I am losing my sympathy for them.

On the other hand, it isn't all black and white; the media fail to document or note the heavy-handed behaviour of the PSNI, as well as the provocative actions of certain members of the Nationalist community (which, recently has begun attacking Unionist/Loyalist protesters at the Strand area of Belfast, thereby inviting retaliatory attacks).

What is your stance on the whole situation? Any thoughts? Try to avoid sectarian bigotry if possible; I know its a touchy subject even today.

[nce_wht_guy]

Unionists need to stop making a mountain out of an anthill. They've basically killed any sympathy they might have gotten when they started attacking the police and those councilman's homes. They've shot themselves in the foot. Why on earth would they think they could paint themselves as victims and then attack the British establishment they want to maintain?

[Zipzopdippidybopbop]

Unionists need to stop making a mountain out of an anthill. They've basically killed any sympathy they might have gotten when they started attacking the police and those councilman's homes. They've shot themselves in the foot. Why on earth would they think they could paint themselves as victims and then attack the British establishment they want to maintain?

Its not all Unionists though; many of them wish to avoid the situation entirely. I think their attacks on the establishment are twofold:

1 - because they feel betrayed and angry at the establishment, feeling that they are in Sinn Feins pockets.

2 - because half of the rioters are teenagers, just out to scrap "for the hell of it".

But no I'm inclined to agree - the constant violence is not helping them gain support.

[Denny Crane!]

The fact that this has gotten so big makes me want to kill myself, or better yet all Northern Irish people.

[Zipzopdippidybopbop]

The fact that this has gotten so big makes me want to kill myself, or better yet all Northern Irish people.

Including me? 0_0

I'm not out on the streets fighting, thankyouverymuch ¬_¬

[Denny Crane!]

Including me? 0_0

I'm not out on the streets fighting, thankyouverymuch ¬_¬

I'm sorry but yeah, I've had to listen to the endless droning of NI politicians accents, the NI accent isn't my favourite anyway BUT its is magnified times a million it seems by aged NI politicians and all of this is over a flag.

I just get the feeling if I went across there and killed everyone it would quite down over there.

On a serious note, ITS A FLAG.

[Zipzopdippidybopbop]

I'm sorry but yeah, I've had to listen to the endless droning of NI politicians accents, the NI accent isn't my favourite anyway BUT its is magnified times a million it seems by aged NI politicians and all of this is over a flag.

I just get the feeling if I went across there and killed everyone it would quite down over there.

On a serious note, ITS A FLAG.

Not my fault our accent gets all the girls mate..

But don't forget how delicate the situation is here; loyalists see the removal of the flag as a curtailment of their British identity by the Sinn Fein led Council. It's a centuries old fear of being forced into a united Ireland really.

But yes, there are loads of people here too who are like "mate its just a flag, wise up".

[Denny Crane!]

Not my fault our accent gets all the girls mate..

Speaking to a geordie here mate, you're on a losing battle there.

But don't forget how delicate the situation is here; loyalists see the removal of the flag as a curtailment of their British identity by the Sinn Fein led Council. It's a centuries old fear of being forced into a united Ireland really.

But yes, there are loads of people here too who are like "mate its just a flag, wise up".

Centuries old fear that is incredibly irrational and should be treated as such. Hence my genocidal reaction.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Irish people are really upset about the idea a small shiver of the island doesn't belong to Ireland as a whole, huh?

[Zipzopdippidybopbop]

Irish people are really upset about the idea a small shiver of the island doesn't belong to Ireland as a whole, huh?

What has that to do with the current situation? The loyalists are rioting, not the nationalists.

[Blaze86420]

^I see we've already reached the phase of useless posting and trolling in this thread.

[frozenprince]

It's the mudpit.

[Blaze86420]

It's the mudpit.

[frozenprince]

edit: You forgot the snark Blaze. Any post has to be snarky too. And if at all possible in context, and insult of a particular group, religion, or personal creed

[Blaze86420]

It doesn't have to make sense, if you say it in a condescending tone and if it's a sentence long then it's witty and you're a clever person.

[Zipzopdippidybopbop]

It doesn't have to make sense, if you say it in a condescending tone and if it's a sentence long then it's witty and you're a clever person.

You have discovered the secret of debate sir. +rep

[Ciabhán]

While I sort of appreciate the irony, being on the other side of the ideological divide, it's rather sad to see. It just shows that we still haven't all managed to move on to seeing ourselves as all just Northern Irish and instead still consider ourselves as part of one of two distinctly opposed groups.

[Zipzopdippidybopbop]

While I sort of appreciate the irony, being on the other side of the ideological divide, it's rather sad to see. It just shows that we still haven't managed to move on to seeing ourselves as all just Northern Irish and instead still consider ourselves as part of one of two distinctly opposed groups.

Agreed. If you check the "Keep the Union Flag Flying over Belfast City Hall" facebook page the language and bigotry of some of the people on it is appalling..... here's a link even:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Keep-t...24171340927645

By the way, what would you make of the counter-proposal to place the Northern Irish flag atop City Hall, rather than the British one?

[Ciabhán]

Personally I'm of the opinion that we should design a new Northern Irish flag that has no historical connotations or connections and fly it. Barring that flying the current one would be preferable.


I'm old enough now to see the benefit of compromise as are many of my generation. As the older generations die off there are less people passing the memories down. Your generation and my children's generation are going to be key in making certain there is future progress. It'll still be a few more before the old way of thinking is far enough on the fringe to be ignorable however.

I have to admit that whenever anything goes poorly for the Unionist community my instinctual reaction is to cheer. You can see it in other folks my age as well. That little smirk that crosses their faces when they first hear the news. This fact, even though it's usually only for a fraction of second, is why I don't see much progress being made until my generation are too old have influence.

[Zipzopdippidybopbop]

Personally I'm of the opinion that we should design a new Northern Irish flag that has no historical connotations or connections and fly it. Barring that flying the current one would be preferable.


I'm old enough now to see the benefit of compromise as are many of my generation. As the older generations die off there are less people passing the memories down. Your generation and my children's generation are going to be key in making certain there is future progress. It'll still be a few more before the old way of thinking is far enough on the fringe to be ignorable however.

That sounds quite reasonable; however there are many (particularly in the loyalist community) who would see a new flag as an attack on their British identity, even then. I couldn't see many Nationalists giving off about it though.

In fact I remember I was at a Def Leppard concert not too long ago; they went offstage for a break and the massive screen behind them changed from a red background to a Union Jack in the colours of the ROI....

The roars of anger were appalling mate; truly shocking. As you can imagine they took it down quick enough like!