Harad overpowered?

[Arindur]

I was playing my 3.1 campaign and noticed that Harad steamrolled Gondor. They then proceeded to wage war against Eriador, so I decided to check who they were putting up against.



I appreciate the feeling of fighting overwhelming evil but this is pretty ridiculous. Has Harad been balanced in 3.2 or was this just a consequence of Harad not having faced natural predators other than Gondor?

[Cheimon]

They're not too hard to deal with, but it does get a little dull fighting stack after stack of unarmoured melee infantry.

I don't know why they do so well. Perhaps it's because Gondor has to face 2 factions, not 1, and Rohan never provides ample support.

[ThaDoews]

I have seen this before! I had also once met 3-4 full Rhun stacks at the Misty Mountains, that be said that the had all the land east of Misty Mountains?!
I think its completly random how the different campaigns works out...

[Bowmaster]

Are they all true stacks or just some random units? It's quite possible that in those stacks there's only about 1-3 units.

[Wizad]

Harad and Rhun both benefit from having a huge amount of land in the back where they can recruit unit after unit, stack after stack. The AI is not limited by money and the replenishment rate for the evil Humans is like 0.5 or 0.33.

Are they all true stacks or just some random units? It's quite possible that in those stacks there's only about 1-3 units.

You can see how many units there are in an army by looking at the banner. The amount of dark red in the banner indicates the amount of units. In this case, they are almost all true stacks of around ~1400 units at least.

[Ngugi]

Harad also begin with a highway roads (even if it look like dirt roads) giving them loads of money.
A decent way to nerf them could be to degrade them in descr_strat.txt in data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign
Ex;

;#################################################################
;##########################  HARAD  ############################## 19100
;################################################################# 
faction spain, balanced smith
ai_label   evil
denari 12000
denari_kings_purse 3600
settlement
{
 level large_town
 region Harad_Province
 year_founded 0
 population 2936
 plan_set default_set
 faction_creator spain
 building
 {
  type hinterland_info_building7 info_Harad
 }
 building
 {
  type core_building wooden_wall
 }
 building
 {
  type barracks town_guard
 }
 building
 {
  type c_missiles c_bowyer
 }
 building
 {  
  type temple_catholic small_church
 }
 building
 {
  type city_hall town_hall
 }
 building
 {
  type hinterland_farms farms
 }
 building
 {
  type hinterland_roads highways
 }
 building
 {
  type taverns brothel
 }
 building
 {
  type market corn_exchange
 }
}

Change highways into
roads or paved_roads in case of cities
or c_roads or c_paved_roads in case of fortresses.

Open data/world/maps/base and there delete map.rwm and changes will apply in next new campaign.
Not saved game compatible

[FC Groningen]

Unless you don't expect to fight Harad at all, it wouldn't hurt to attempt to cripple or destroy them before they can grow too strong. If you manage to attack them before turn 40, you catch them with their pants down and before turn 80/90, not on their full strength yet. But yes, Harad can be considered overpowered, especially controlled by the AI.

[avenging angel]

Yes they are, but as long as you can help gondor if you are playing one of the good guys, then they can be beaten back... If playing as gondor, as been aid before, stall mordor, focus on harad..

[BeingDale]

We should really start recording these topics and seeing if there is a definitive pattern to the regularity of the over-powered/under powered (insert faction or unit) comments that always crop up, get answered and then appear to disappear.

But no they haven't disappeared, they are just lurking in the darkness of the internet's under-belly to appear again when we have all been lulled into a sense of security.

Either way, yes Harad are hard, it could be argued they are over-powered, but they are defeatable if you get to helping Gondor fairly early on (between 80-150 I have found that Gondor are usually still in fine fettle) probably against Mordor freeing them up to concentrate on one front against Harad.

[mondpeiler]

@ BeingDale:
yes, there are several topics that pop up again.
but maybe this is, because different people come to the same questions/conclusions.
and (I like this forum, but) the searchengine for threads doesn't really often lead to desired results.
to find an existing thread you nearly have to know its entire name by heart.

on topic: I've got a picture of Harads might, too:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

they ARE overpowered!

[Altimis]

You guys already lost then coz no allies to help from now on : P

[ShockBlast]

Nothing new under the sun.Just by looking at the map one can understand.Gondor faces both Harad and Mordor and sooner or later they will fall.

I think that in addition to Ngugi`s idea Harad could lose like 3 provinces to the rebels so that when Gondor and Harad meet it will be in Harandor not on the Anduin.

[paradamed]

Nothing new under the sun.Just by looking at the map one can understand.Gondor faces both Harad and Mordor and sooner or later they will fall.

I think that in addition to Ngugi`s idea Harad could lose like 3 provinces to the rebels so that when Gondor and Harad meet it will be in Harandor not on the Anduin.

I liked this suggestion.

[Ngugi]

@ mondepiler
You call that a challenge? You simply haven't unlocked the Chuck Norris-general yet who shoot Undead Armies with his gaze


@ ShockBlast
On a more serious note I suggest you test out to simply make the change to mainly roads first, from beta tests in DCI: LA the difference appers really big far into the game, simply because Harad suddenly do not swim in money from trade alone

[ShockBlast]

@ ShockBlast
On a more serious note I suggest you test out to simply make the change to mainly roads first, from beta tests in DCI: LA the difference appers really big far into the game, simply because Harad suddenly do not swim in money from trade alone

ATM I have MOS installed and it seems all roads are just normal dirt roads.

Now I just have to import Gondor Guardsmen and split up Gondor Militia because it has 4 skins and it would be great for representing the territorial soldiers.Damn I poke around a lot.

[mondpeiler]

@ Ngugi: haha, no, I haven't unlocked Chuck yet - but I'm working on it.
but at the above displayed campaign I was perfectly fine with Harads strength - I was Isengard
only a bit sad, that they left me no part of the fat, sugary Gondor-pie. maybe I was just too employed with High Elves and Arnor...

[Ngugi]

Just note;

Harad also begin with a highway roads (even if it look like dirt roads) giving them loads of money.

Perhaps MOS has it fixed however, though that can only codes reveal.

[ShockBlast]

Just note;Perhaps MOS has it fixed however, though that can only codes reveal.

I`ved checked the files as you said.

[FC Groningen]

Doesn't really matter I think. The reason the AI and AI or player and AI meet there is because of the natural line of defence. If you choose to have the border run across various parts of Harondor, you will probably have a much harder time to defend the status quo than to maintain the Anduin as a border. It's possible to discuss whether it would be best to have Gondor gain some settlements or Harad lose some, but considering Harad's position compared to Mordor's, it wouldn't hurt to have Harad hold less provinces.

[chriskourou]

For the love of God what's this ??? Maybe the AI found a way to use cheats...