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Thread: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

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  1. #1
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Default Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    • Is Catherine Bigelow the new Leni Riefenstahl?
    • Did President Obama ordered the CIA to closely cooperate with her?
    • Has the acting head of CIA blown his chances to be confirmed in his post?


    Zero-Dark-Thirty, a recent film by Catherine Bigelow (of the Hurt Locker fame) has opened to nearly universal acclaim. Among the enthusiasts there were few voices criticizing her portrayal of torture techniques, while praising her film-making skills at the same time, while even fewer reviewers pointed at the potentially misleading nature of the reasoning presented in the movie.

    The movie makes clear that torture was instrumental in capturing Bin Laden. Which may or may not be the case but after all it's a fiction feature, not a documentary.

    Well, not quite.

    Today, Naomi Wolf in the Guardian accuses Bigelow of being the new Leni Riefenstahl, a documentary pioneer who is best remembered for her close association with the Nazi regime and the propaganda films she created for the Reich.

    Cinema has a long history of acclaimed propaganda features ranging from Alexander Nevsky to Went the day well?. Riefenstahl stands out not only because she was glorifying an abhorrent regime but also because her features were clearly not fictionalized as for example Eisenstein's ones.

    That claim also comes under scrutiny. You see, a writer in the Guardian is one thing a Senate inquiry a completely different animal. Especially a bipartisan one:

    Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, along with Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.), said Thursday that they had sent two letters to acting CIA chief Michael Morell. In the first, dated Dec. 19, they requested information about what the CIA told the filmmakers. In the second, dated Monday, they asked Morell to clarify a statement he issued on Dec. 21 about the movie and its portrayal of torture.[...]“Given the CIA's cooperation with the filmmakers … and the narrative's consistency with past public misstatements by former senior CIA officials … the filmmakers could have been misled by information they were provided by CIA,” the senators said in a statement Thursday. They requested “all information and documents provided to the filmmakers by CIA officials.”
    Morell the acing Head of CIA (awaiting confirmation) replied that:

    What I want you to know is that ‘Zero Dark Thirty' is a dramatization, not a realistic portrayal of the facts
    but was foolish enough to add:

    Some [information] came from detainees subjected to enhanced techniques, but there were many other sources as well. And, importantly, whether enhanced interrogation techniques were the only timely and effective way to obtain information from those detainees, as the film suggests, is a matter of debate that cannot and never will be definitively resolved
    which of course prompted a second letter by the Senators:

    the senators took issue with that aspect of his statement, warning him that his letter was “potentially inconsistent” with the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence's study of the CIA's detention and interrogation program and challenging him to “provide specific examples of information that was obtained in a ‘timely and effective' way from CIA detainees subjected to the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques.”
    source for the above quotes.

    To top that Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) called for a probe into whether the Obama administration improperly granted the filmmakers extensive access to government sources.
    Last edited by Garbarsardar; January 04, 2013 at 07:17 PM.

  2. #2
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    This whole fiasco is depressing. I saw the limited release. It isn't even remotely a love letter to the USA or our military. Of course that wont stop people from seeing it that way.

    I mean . Bigelow should be on capital hill for making the main character in her last film go off the reservation and contemplate the killing of innocents that clearly drove that nut job to leave his base and kill those innocent Afghans.

    She also made good films before she started with the pseudo-documentaries.


    As the main tagline suggests - it is the story of the largest manhunt in history. Nothing more nothing less. The person I went with found it incredibly boring but for the last 30-60 minutes.
    Last edited by mrmouth; January 04, 2013 at 08:48 PM.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Garbarsardar View Post
    • Is Catherine Bigelow the new Leni Riefenstahl?

    No... seriously? Is this a joke.

    This is Leni Riefenstahl



    I don't know how you even begin to compare that to any movie that Bigelow made.

    One trick I use to tell them apart is one states in its opening credits that it is produced by the order of the fuhrer, and the other Universal Studios.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    I hate her movies. The Hurt Locker is a piece of . 50 years ago Americans that wanted to get angry about a war and see brutality turned on the nightly news. Now they get all sappy about some stylized Oscar-hunting crap.

    I'm mainly mad that Andy from Parks and Rec is in this pile of dog .

  5. #5
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    You'll love the guy who has his "shooting gloves" on all the time. He's a winner.
    The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists
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  6. #6
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    Lol can't wait

  7. #7
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by tarvu View Post
    No... seriously? Is this a joke.

    This is Leni Riefenstahl

    I don't know how you even begin to compare that to any movie that Bigelow made.

    One trick I use to tell them apart is one states in its opening credits that it is produced by the order of the fuhrer, and the other Universal Studios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garbarsardar View Post
    Today, Naomi Wolf in the Guardian accuses Bigelow of being the new Leni Riefenstahl, a documentary pioneer who is best remembered for her close association with the Nazi regime and the propaganda films she created for the Reich.
    I am not Naomi Wolf.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    Leni Riefenstahl - one of the best movie director in XX century. So I guess that's a compliment?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by NRohirrim View Post
    Leni Riefenstahl - one of the best movie director in XX century. So I guess that's a compliment?
    Not from the Guardian's perspective.

    I saw the movie yesterday and I was unable to understand the accusations regarding "promotion of torture". In fact, in the movie, torture yields no actionable evidence. But I guess this was never the point at least as the Senate inquiry goes.

  10. #10
    Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    I just saw the movie yesterday, and I think that in the movie, it was depicted that torture led to some valuable information coming forth, but the information is much more important if we follow the film's narrative that Osama was caught by an almost attractive white woman who is obsessed with work, which for some reason doesn't strike me as all that possible, especially if it's the "largest manhunt in history."

    However, the film definitely goes at odd with what the Senators are saying, because torture did not yield any timely information, unless you consider 8 years "timely."

    As far as Bigelow goes, this film wasn't bad, and didn't really portray the armed forces in a negative way, but again, the idea of an almost attractive white woman being the single person responsible for finding bin Laden is a bit...out there.

  11. #11
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    I thought it was common knowledge that a good looking woman tracked down UBL?

    They started the screenplay before May 2011 and rewrote much of it based on the book written by the SEAL. The raid and what happens in the hangar is almost word for word.

    I think people will be surprised by the movie. It isn't what most people are expecting. And it doesn't drag even though it is two and a half hours. It's a solid flick. I saw it again last night at a friends house (it's 'around') and I remember some things differently now. But I was still interested in seeing it again.

    Moral of the story is just ignore strange people whispering your name.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    Yea, it's more "paperwork, the movie" than the action flick it's being hyped up as. Which isn't to say it's BAD, it's just different than it's being presented.

    Patronized by the mighty Heinz Guderian

  13. #13

    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    Well, the trailers don't help. I saw the latest trailer of it before Django (omg, a-maaaziinnggg) and it makes it out to be a spy thriller mixed with a healthy dose of action. But the trailer itself probably has just about every single scene where there are weapons or conflict.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    Well, the trailers don't help. I saw the latest trailer of it before Django (omg, a-maaaziinnggg) and it makes it out to be a spy thriller mixed with a healthy dose of action. But the trailer itself probably has just about every single scene where there are weapons or conflict.
    People should know not to trust the trailers by now. Trailers always lie, a lesson I learned long, long ago.

    My god though the amount of paperwork that gets done in this movie. RIVETING FILING ACTION!

    Patronized by the mighty Heinz Guderian

  15. #15

    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    I suppose paper filing in the MP office is what the big timers get to do once they've moved on from pushing the broom.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    So motiv, dream that dream and you too one day can file papers. In HIGH DEFINITION ACTION. ACTION. ACTION!

    Patronized by the mighty Heinz Guderian

  17. #17
    magpie's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    Hmm, Poor Leni a brilliant filmmaker, Such a pity her talents were allowed to go to waste after WW2.

    I do like this modern day speak, advanced interrogation technique. Its so PC.

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  18. #18

    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    Leni Riefenstahl was one of the greatest pre-ww2 directors, so no, Catherine Bigelow is no Leni Riefenstahl.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Zero-Dark-Thirty: Leni Riefenstahl and a Senate inquiry

    Went the Day Well? is awesome. An old woman kills a German soldier with an axe.
    'When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything. '

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