Belgium seeks conviction of Church of Scientology

[sabaku_no_gaara]

Belgium's federal public prosecutors have decided to prosecute the Church of Scientology in Belgium and several of its high-ranking members. The organisation and several of its members face charges in connection with extortion, fraud, illegal practice of medicine and violations of privacy legislation.

http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuw...al_prosecutors


Scientology claims it's an attack on religious freedom and claims to be the victim of an inquisition.


If convicted, could this have any influence on their position in other countries?

[Garbarsardar]

I do not understand why religion deserves a greater degree of legal protection than any other ideology. For example the Socialist party in Greece is under scrutiny over some fraud, but no one would say that this is an attack on Socialism.

The Church of Scientology, apart from the usual ridicule in the platitudes it professes as doctrinal ideology,( The Church of Scientology teaches that a human is an immortal, extraterrestrial, spiritual being, termed a thetan, that is trapped on Earth in a physical body. The thetan has had innumerable past lives and it is accepted in Scientology that lives preceding the thetan's arrival on Earth lived in extraterrestrial cultures.sourced)has a history of of criminal conspiracy: Operation Snow White, Operation Freakout.

They were convicted in both previous cases, but they're still there.

[Stavroforos]

I do not understand why religion deserves a greater degree of legal protection than any other ideology. For example the Socialist party in Greece is under scrutiny over some fraud, but no one would say that this is an attack on Socialism.

The Church of Scientology, apart from the usual ridicule in the platitudes it professes as doctrinal ideology,( The Church of Scientology teaches that a human is an immortal, extraterrestrial, spiritual being, termed a thetan, that is trapped on Earth in a physical body. The thetan has had innumerable past lives and it is accepted in Scientology that lives preceding the thetan's arrival on Earth lived in extraterrestrial cultures.sourced)has a history of of criminal conspiracy: Operation Snow White, Operation Freakout.

They were convicted in both previous cases, but they're still there.

I'd love to see the Orthodox Church go under scrutiny and for people in Greece not to claim it's an attack on Orthodoxy! All the old ladies would go outside the courthouses holding crosses in their hands, shite would go down.

[Giorgos]

I'd love to see the Orthodox Church go under scrutiny and for people in Greece not to claim it's an attack on Orthodoxy! All the old ladies would go outside the courthouses holding crosses in their hands, shite would go down.

Bull. It has come unders scrutiny, several times in the past. Cross wielding screaming minority aside, the majority of the populace, myself included, thought that cleansing was good.

[Stavroforos]

Bull. It has come unders scrutiny, several times in the past. Cross wielding screaming minority aside, the majority of the populace, myself included, thought that cleansing was good.

Perhaps we can continue this an enter the 20th Century.

[Treize]

Good move.

[The Dude]

I want to support this, and I do to some extent. The more of such cases against scientology are built the better their credibility is undermined. On the other hand, this gets them publicity, and that will inevitably result in converts.

[Guidrion]

I really don't have any deep input to bring in this subject other than this:

GOOD!

This cult has done enough harm to the world and I'm damn proud that my country shows bravery against this criminal organization.

[Diglytron]

Lol, what, there are people in Belgium and Holland who are into this sect? Diddn't see that comming

[Liamgamer55]

Lol, what, there are people in Belgium and Holland who are into this sect? Diddn't see that comming

To be fair, joining because you were interested and then telling them you cheated on your wife and them threatening you with leaking that information because you want to leave isn't exactly just straightforward joining.

[The Dude]

Sure there are. There's a Culthouse of Scientology in Amsterdam, actually.

Count on finding nutjobs in any country.

[Border Patrol]

Good

[Aanker]

Two threads on Belgium, in so little time. That country extends beyond its geographical borders it seems.

[Guidrion]

Two threads on Belgium, in so little time. That country extends beyond its geographical borders it seems.

Wait until you see the army of chocolate-powered tanks and zeppelins coming out of the ground. None shall survive to our might!

[Admiral Piett]

The US attempted bringing many charges but many of them failed to stick mostly due to how well hidden the senior leadership of the church is.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

The US attempted bringing many charges but many of them failed to stick mostly due to how well hidden the senior leadership of the church is.

Well police surprise raided the offices of Scientology in Belgium in 2008 (The European headquarters is suposedly in Brussels) And they found a huge amount of evidence apparently and are now ready to prosecute them.

@Jom, In Belgium all religious agents (priests, rabi, Imams etc...) actually receive their wages from the state, aswell as their housing (either in the form of a house, or the state paying the rent) and I do believe they don't pay taxes

[╬Ritterbruder╬]

Well police surprise raided the offices of Scientology in Belgium in 2008 (The European headquarters is suposedly in Brussels) And they found a huge amount of evidence apparently and are now ready to prosecute them.

@Jom, In Belgium all religious agents (priests, rabi, Imams etc...) actually receive their wages from the state, aswell as their housing (either in the form of a house, or the state paying the rent) and I do believe they don't pay taxes

are you sure about those wages? I assume when you have a stated-based religion like the Angelican Church, with the state leader being also the church leader, then that would make sense. But since our priests (referring to our Belgian Catholic branch) recieve their 'orders' from the Vatican...
But still I'm not sure, so you might (and probably are) right, since Church and State have been so entwined for so long.

Still, I find the comparison with other standard religions rather difficult, they are a way more closed community than let's say: Islam of Catholicism.

@Guidrion: studeerd(e) gij in Leuven?

[sabaku_no_gaara]

are you sure about those wages? I assume when you have a stated-based religion like the Angelican Church, with the state leader being also the church leader, then that would make sense. But since our priests (referring to our Belgian Catholic branch) recieve their 'orders' from the Vatican...
But still I'm not sure, so you might (and probably are) right, since Church and State have been so entwined for so long.

Still, I find the comparison with other standard religions rather difficult, they are a way more closed community than let's say: Islam of Catholicism.

@Guidrion: studeerd(e) gij in Leuven?

Got this from Knack in a article about discussion on changing the system:

The figures speak for themselves: the Ministry of Justice pays the wages of 3,000 Catholic priests, 295 lay counselors, 116 Protestant pastors, 49 Orthodox popes and (only) 19 imams. "This situation has developed historically," says Gwendolyn Rutten (Open VLD). "That's perfectly understandable, but hardly defensible."

http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/te...0003021944.htm

Also apparently the Catholic church is a bit more priviledged in Belgium over other religions

[╬Ritterbruder╬]

Got this from Knack in a article about discussion on changing the system:

http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/te...0003021944.htm

Also apparently the Catholic church is a bit more priviledged in Belgium over other religions

the justice department? now it's getting all blurry...

still, you were right, and as I assumed, it was the result of historical connections

[Guidrion]

The remuneration of the religion officers is only given to state recognized religions. So far: roman catholicism, organized secularism, Judaism, Islam, protestantism, orthodoxism and Anglicanism. Buddhism is currently in the process of recognition.

The conditions are the following:
significant number of followers, organized representation of the religion capable of interacting with the authorities, presence within Belgium for several decades, having social utility, no activities contrary to social order.

Scientology is completely unrecognized.

The idea behind this system was a compromise between the liberals and the catholics when the country was made (also: there is no mention of God in the constitution). For the liberals, I'd say they could consider it was a way to ease the Church which was against democracy at the time (you don't bite the hand that feeds you). For the catholics, it was a way to make sure the liberals wouldn't start a war against religion like in the French Revolution.
A move for religious peace.

So far, it demonstrated a certain use due to the fact that it promotes traditional religions over cults (frankly, when I hear that cults get fiscal exemptions in the US horrifies me). It's expansive but it also helps to moderate the religious extremism.

And finally, there is a huge tradition in Belgium of neo-corporatism: we prefer to have social dialogues rather than the society and the state never meeting unless it's to fight on some legislation.

@Guidrion: studeerd(e) gij in Leuven?

Nee. Saint-Louis, Brussels.