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  1. #1

    Default Review of Otomo Clan

    I just completed a H/H campaign with the Otomo (I find that VH/legendary distort the game mechanics too much.) I'm not going to give a step-by-step account, but I do have some insights to share.

    Starting Position: Kinda rough, but not terrible. The main threats come from the NW and across the strait to NE. Block the strait with your ship immediately as you really don't want to have a stack sneak across when your armies are elsewhere. Ito is friendly, and an alliance would be a good idea. The clan to the West is initially indifferent, but will eventually turn on you.

    Clan Bonuses: The cheap and fast training imported matchlocks are handy and make using matchlocks from turn 1 much more feasible economically. Reduced cost for missionary actions is nice, but will become less relevant latter on. Starting as Christian definitely helps in avoiding that awkward transition that other clans will have to go through. The conversion bonus is nice, but not a huge asset.

    Clan Tech Tree Changes: You can train matchlock ashigura after the 2nd gunpowder tech rather than having to grind it out till the 3rd (which you will still want for matchlock samurai and blunderbuss cavalry.) However, you will always need a powder maker to train the ashigura, even after the mastery tech. The missionary bonus for the 1st and 2nd tier religion techs are switched, so you get an improved chance of success and then the cost reduction bonus.

    Clan/New Units:
    Otomo Matchlock Ashigura: Same as the Oda version, but you can access them earlier. They are excellent for defending settlements, but trickier to use in field battles. They are shoot faster and more accurately than their regular counter parts but are still terrible in melee and vulnerable to archers. Try to be the defender when using them on the field as the screen really help in slowing down melee attackers to allow for a quick retreat once they get too close.

    Otomo Matchlock Samurai: Better rof/accuracy than regular version. Compared to ashigura, they are better/faster shots, decent in melee (after a few volleys to slant things in their favor), and more resistant to arrow fire. I've had much more luck using them over ashigura in field battles because they are significantly less fragile. The smaller unit size can also be helpful in maneuvering to fire from the flanks.

    Otomo Matchlock Kobaya: More accurate than regular version. Good damage, even versus bigger ships, but firing is sometimes buggy.

    Otomo Dunderbluss Cavalry: Quite nasty. Melee stats are of a slightly watered down Katana Cavalry, but they have the boom stick to (over)compensate. In fact, I would recommend ditching Katana Cavalry and using Dunderblusses in their place. Their guns are reasonably accurate and do excellent damage while the reload is slowish but not more so than other matchlock units.
    Other cavalry need to be careful as single volley can easily kill half a unit and render the melee a foregone conclusion. Their range may only be 50, but because they are cavalry they can zip in and out as needed. Thus, infantry can be flanked/kited and torn apart with buckshot. Because their melee stats aren't too shabby, you can go ahead and run down missile infantry who might otherwise beat you at range with numbers/rof.

    Portuguese Tercios: Basically imported matchlock samurai, and incredibly powerful early in the game when armies are almost all un-upgraded ashigura. They are still potent into the late game, but more limited in that they have to be trained at the Naban Quarter+Hunting Lodge (only +5 accuracy, ick). Matchlock Samurai trained at a craftworks castle will become nearly as good and much more accessible. They also don't have bamboo screens, so be prepared to swing them around the flanks or commit them to melee (which fortunately they aren't bad at.)

    Clan/New Buildings:

    Leased Land: Adds a one-time sum of 4500 to your treasury, does not add to town wealth, and cannot be destroyed latter on. Also reduces daimyo honor by one. Given that many non-production settlements will have open building slots, leased land is not entirely useless. The honor penalty is really the harshest part.

    Jesuit School Chain: Replacement for the normal Christian building chain optimized for quickly converting new territories and bolstering local forces through bonuses to replenishment/siege length. This is at the cost of the massive Chi research, town wealth growth, happiness, and adjacent region conversion bonuses of the normal chain.
    Generally speaking this is a downgrade. The Jesuit School chain might be more desirable for a settlement that going be attacked frequently or used as a staging area, but its special bonuses are not that great. The AI usually assaults, so siege length is not really that helpful and the replenishment bonus only goes up to 10% at the highest end of the chain. You will be able to convert single regions pretty quickly, but I usually have my missionaries doing that before I conquer them. Ultimately you will most miss the massive Chi research bonuses as all levels of the Jesuit School chain only give +5%.

    There you have it, feel free to add comments.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    I want to say that sounds about right. The Otomo are certainly a pretty strong clan, but they're pretty rough as it seems everyone is going to try and stab you eventually - I had the Ito war me at Friendly. But I guess that's what you get for being locked into Christianity. Leased Land sounds like a neat idea, but frankly with all your daimyos always having a permanent -1 honor anyway (because of religion) I can't see using it being a very good at idea at all. Maybe once you hit Realm Divide and you really need a quick 4500 koku, but even then you only get a oneshot source of cash then the Portugese do who knows what with it.

    The Tercios are pretty sweet, but I have to say you need to avoid "gun vision", like I did. Matchlocks are pretty good units, but they only really shine in defensive sieges. Try to make matchlock heavy armies like me, and the AI will probably just tear you apart, especially as you near Realm Divide and they start fielding almost all Samurai armies that will not rout easily to your guns.

    Missionaries are pretty great at causing revolts and see really, really good at it. They are though, pretty much vulnerable to every single other agent and even a high level one can easily be converted, assassinated, or arrested.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Nice (although on a side note, it's Ashigaru and not Ashigura) It's a nice general review otherwise!
    Also, it's also possible to destroy your Nanban tarding port in Bungo and to rebuild it in Buzen. Buzen increases the accuracy of your Portuguese Tercos and they will be more potent on the long run.
    But I totally agree that it's a costly operation and it might not always be wise to do that...

  4. #4

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by myself View Post
    Nice (although on a side note, it's Ashigaru and not Ashigura) It's a nice general review otherwise!
    Also, it's also possible to destroy your Nanban tarding port in Bungo and to rebuild it in Buzen. Buzen increases the accuracy of your Portuguese Tercos and they will be more potent on the long run.
    But I totally agree that it's a costly operation and it might not always be wise to do that...
    Yeah I think that's at least around... 6000 koku investment? And around 10 turns, I think just to rebuild the port itself. It's certainly an option, but a pricey one. I suppose, in theory, if the AI ever built one somewhere you could capture it but... I don't think I've really seen an AI build Nanban.

  5. #5
    MJWilliams's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by 6Bagheera9 View Post
    Jesuit School Chain: Replacement for the normal Christian building chain optimized for quickly converting new territories and bolstering local forces through bonuses to replenishment/siege length. This is at the cost of the massive Chi research, town wealth growth, happiness, and adjacent region conversion bonuses of the normal chain.
    Generally speaking this is a downgrade. The Jesuit School chain might be more desirable for a settlement that going be attacked frequently or used as a staging area, but its special bonuses are not that great.
    Yeah I was pretty disappointed with the new Jesuit buildings. Makes me think the changes (read: nerfs) to them were a deliberate balance issue, given the immediate access to matchlocks, the powerful unique units, and the ease in which you can capture Tsukushi, Hizen and Hida. Seems odd giving the matchlock-focused clan that siege length bonus considering matchlocks in castles already make them nigh-impregnable. Replenishment rates are also already way too high, so that also strikes me as another deliberate downgrade.
    Last edited by MJWilliams; December 29, 2012 at 09:23 AM.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by MJWilliams View Post
    Yeah I was pretty disappointed with the new Jesuit buildings. Makes me think the changes (read: nerfs) to them were a deliberate balance issue, given the immediate access to matchlocks, the powerful unique units, and the ease in which you can capture Tsukushi, Hizen and Hida. Seems odd giving the matchlock-focused clan that siege length bonus considering matchlocks in castles already make them nigh-impregnable. Replenishment rates are also already way too high, so that also strikes me as another deliberate downgrade.
    I have this little idea http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...7#post12427957

    Can someone help? i'm not a modder

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
    Yeah I think that's at least around... 6000 koku investment? And around 10 turns, I think just to rebuild the port itself. It's certainly an option, but a pricey one. I suppose, in theory, if the AI ever built one somewhere you could capture it but... I don't think I've really seen an AI build Nanban.
    Well, the loss in money is a little bit lower, it's just 4650, but it takes 12 turns in total to get back the three buidings needed to get back your nanban trading port (850 and 2 turns for the harbour, 1800 koku and 4 turns for the trading port and finally 2000 koku and 6 turns for the nanban trading port). So, it is an investement both in terms of money and in terms of turns spent. I think that it is a doable strategy but it will make the beginning of the game somewhat harder. On the long run, it's obviously going to be useful though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Auditor View Post
    with Tsukushi Hizen and Higo, trade nodes and relatively safe position, money is no problm for Otomo. so relocating nanban to Buzen is a must IMHO.
    I would say that this is probably true in the long run. One question remains though, when should you relocate your nanban port? I would tend to improve my starting nanban trading port, grab naval supremacy thanks to European ships, secure the trade nodes, expand a little bit and once all that is over, destroy and relocate my nanban quarter. In terms of money and turns lost, it would be even worse than to relocate from the beginning my nanban port but, when you get to this point, money becomes less of a crucial matter.
    Last edited by The Dutch Devil; December 30, 2012 at 07:56 AM. Reason: Double post

  8. #8

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by myself View Post
    Also, it's also possible to destroy your Nanban tarding port in Bungo and to rebuild it in Buzen. Buzen increases the accuracy of your Portuguese Tercos and they will be more potent on the long run.
    But I totally agree that it's a costly operation and it might not always be wise to do that...
    with Tsukushi Hizen and Higo, trade nodes and relatively safe position, money is no problm for Otomo. so relocating nanban to Buzen is a must IMHO.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by Auditor View Post
    with Tsukushi Hizen and Higo, trade nodes and relatively safe position, money is no problm for Otomo. so relocating nanban to Buzen is a must IMHO.
    On Point.

    You need to play on the hardest difficulty possible to get the ultimate Total war experience. The harder it gets the more tools you need to use making you touch on many more aspects of the game.

    But it will never be fair because you have a brain and the AI is sorely lacking.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by Auditor View Post
    with Tsukushi Hizen and Higo, trade nodes and relatively safe position, money is no problm for Otomo. so relocating nanban to Buzen is a must IMHO.
    In my first campaign I don't think I ever had any money at all. By the time realm divide hit, I barely had any funds and everything I owned was still a Stronghold pratically. I was constantly strapped for koku, it didn't help no one ever held a trade agreement long before declaring war on me anyway and I was just playing normal/normal.

    Then again, I prefer town growth and will never raise taxes high enough to lower it.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by myself View Post
    I would say that this is probably true in the long run. One question remains though, when should you relocate your nanban port? I would tend to improve my starting nanban trading port, grab naval supremacy thanks to European ships, secure the trade nodes, expand a little bit and once all that is over, destroy and relocate my nanban quarter. In terms of money and turns lost, it would be even worse than to relocate from the beginning my nanban port but, when you get to this point, money becomes less of a crucial matter.
    Time is not a factor in my opinion, as you need to research "attack by fire" in bushido tree and then build powder maker to get Tercos. So it will take a long time anyway. Now about when to relocate...
    I never said you should destroy your nanban port in Bungo. Not at all. You should give it to Shimazu/Sagara. In other words, you should let them (Shimazu preferably) to capture Bungo. Why? because they will 99% convert to christianity and by that they will convert population in their provinces to christianity. Then you will just capture those provinces and will not need to convert them and deal with low public order...
    And when you will get Bungo back (not such a great province anyway), you could have 2 !! nanban quarters.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by Auditor View Post
    Time is not a factor in my opinion, as you need to research "attack by fire" in bushido tree and then build powder maker to get Tercos. So it will take a long time anyway. Now about when to relocate...
    I never said you should destroy your nanban port in Bungo. Not at all. You should give it to Shimazu/Sagara. In other words, you should let them (Shimazu preferably) to capture Bungo. Why? because they will 99% convert to christianity and by that they will convert population in their provinces to christianity. Then you will just capture those provinces and will not need to convert them and deal with low public order...
    And when you will get Bungo back (not such a great province anyway), you could have 2 !! nanban quarters.
    Damn i didn't know that, you learn something new everyday.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by Auditor View Post
    Time is not a factor in my opinion, as you need to research "attack by fire" in bushido tree and then build powder maker to get Tercos. So it will take a long time anyway. Now about when to relocate...
    I never said you should destroy your nanban port in Bungo. Not at all. You should give it to Shimazu/Sagara. In other words, you should let them (Shimazu preferably) to capture Bungo. Why? because they will 99% convert to christianity and by that they will convert population in their provinces to christianity. Then you will just capture those provinces and will not need to convert them and deal with low public order...
    And when you will get Bungo back (not such a great province anyway), you could have 2 !! nanban quarters.
    I hadn't thought about doing that. But it seems great, one more nanban quarter can never hurt

  14. #14

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by Auditor View Post
    Time is not a factor in my opinion, as you need to research "attack by fire" in bushido tree and then build powder maker to get Tercos. So it will take a long time anyway. Now about when to relocate...
    I never said you should destroy your nanban port in Bungo. Not at all. You should give it to Shimazu/Sagara. In other words, you should let them (Shimazu preferably) to capture Bungo. Why? because they will 99% convert to christianity and by that they will convert population in their provinces to christianity. Then you will just capture those provinces and will not need to convert them and deal with low public order...
    And when you will get Bungo back (not such a great province anyway), you could have 2 !! nanban quarters.
    Doesn't losing your faction's capital have some penalties though? Also in my experience, the Ito tend to wipe out the Shimazu (not much of a sample size, just 2 games so far it has happened twice). Although that is a way to gain TWO Nanban Quarters... I don't think the AI ever dismantles things.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
    Doesn't losing your faction's capital have some penalties though? Also in my experience, the Ito tend to wipe out the Shimazu (not much of a sample size, just 2 games so far it has happened twice). Although that is a way to gain TWO Nanban Quarters... I don't think the AI ever dismantles things.
    They do dismantle temples belong to the other persons affiliation.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
    Doesn't losing your faction's capital have some penalties though? Also in my experience, the Ito tend to wipe out the Shimazu (not much of a sample size, just 2 games so far it has happened twice). Although that is a way to gain TWO Nanban Quarters... I don't think the AI ever dismantles things.
    As far as I know - no penalty, at least not something noticable...
    Ito wipe Shimazu? well it never happened to me, so far I started more then 10 otomo campaigns, all legendary, and Shimazu allways destroys Ito at some point. anyway, if Ito wins over south kyushu, you are pretty safe from the south, as hey are very friendly. so you can just relocate nanban port to Buzen

  17. #17

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by myself View Post
    Nice (although on a side note, it's Ashigaru and not Ashigura) It's a nice general review otherwise!
    Also, it's also possible to destroy your Nanban tarding port in Bungo and to rebuild it in Buzen. Buzen increases the accuracy of your Portuguese Tercos and they will be more potent on the long run.
    But I totally agree that it's a costly operation and it might not always be wise to do that...
    I agree with moving the port, I do this myself as often as possible to get units of almost sniper like ashigaru and others. The accuracy boost is really helpfull. For a small unit like the Tercos it's a must because otherwise they won't be able to kill that much of a unit before they are forced into melee or forced to pull back.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Those Donderbuss Cavalry are serious damage. I thought Tokugawa Mounted Gunners do damage, I used the Donderbuss Cavalry in MP and wiped out 75% of a Yari Ashigaru in one shot.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Leased lands and Damiyo honor solution - lease lands early to build up starting provinces, build Nanban trading port (Nanban ship or two) and get very strong units early on to claim the entire island. Build up son and heir to 2-3 star general, then send your 1 honor Damiyo to his death (auto-resolve as an admiral of a single bow kobaya is a sure bet).

    Ascending heir and a new Damiyo will regain all of the lost honor - my new Damiyo was 4 or 5 honor and all of generals became maximum loyalty to the new leader.

    So you can have your cake and eat it too!

    As for Ottomo DLC - I found the clan incredibly fun to play as. It was nail biting campaign as all but one clan were against me from the start - there was no shortage of fighting to be had.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Review of Otomo Clan

    Quote Originally Posted by StukaJr View Post
    Leased lands and Damiyo honor solution - lease lands early to build up starting provinces, build Nanban trading port (Nanban ship or two) and get very strong units early on to claim the entire island. Build up son and heir to 2-3 star general, then send your 1 honor Damiyo to his death (auto-resolve as an admiral of a single bow kobaya is a sure bet).

    Ascending heir and a new Damiyo will regain all of the lost honor - my new Damiyo was 4 or 5 honor and all of generals became maximum loyalty to the new leader.

    So you can have your cake and eat it too!

    As for Ottomo DLC - I found the clan incredibly fun to play as. It was nail biting campaign as all but one clan were against me from the start - there was no shortage of fighting to be had.
    Or do this

    Or this


    Or play on Normal and complain about the AI getting cheats on and thats the only reason why you dont play instead of acknowledging the one true fact we all know about that person..... He sucks!

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