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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    An interesting article...

    College student's turtle project takes dark twist

    Clemson University student Nathan Weaver set out to determine how to help turtles cross the road. He ended up getting a glimpse into the dark souls of some humans.

    Weaver put a realistic rubber turtle in the middle of a lane on a busy road near campus. Then he got out of the way and watched over the next hour as seven drivers swerved and deliberately ran over the animal. Several more apparently tried to hit it but missed.

    "I've heard of people and from friends who knew people that ran over turtles. But to see it out here like this was a bit shocking," said Weaver, a 22-year-old senior in Clemson's School of Agricultural, Forest and Environmental Sciences.

    To seasoned researchers, the practice wasn't surprising.

    The number of box turtles is in slow decline, and one big reason is that many wind up as roadkill while crossing the asphalt, a slow-and-steady trip that can take several minutes.

    Sometimes humans feel a need to prove they are the dominant species on this planet by taking a two-ton metal vehicle and squishing a defenseless creature under the tires, said Hal Herzog, a Western Carolina University psychology professor.

    "They aren't thinking, really. It is not something people think about. It just seems fun at the time," Herzog said. "It is the dark side of human nature."

    Herzog asked a class of about 110 students getting ready to take a final whether they had intentionally run over a turtle, or been in a car with someone who did. Thirty-four students raised their hands, about two-thirds of them male, said Herzog, author of a book about humans' relationships with animals, called "Some We Love, Some We Hate, Some We Eat."

    Weaver, who became interested in animals and conservation through the Boy Scouts and TV's "Crocodile Hunter" Steve Irwin, wants to figure out the best way to get turtles safely across the road and keep the population from dwindling further.

    Among the possible solutions: turtle underpasses or an education campaign aimed at teenagers on why drivers shouldn't mow turtles down.

    The first time Weaver went out to collect data on turtles, he chose a spot down the road from a big apartment complex that caters to students. He counted 267 vehicles that passed by, seven of them intentionally hitting his rubber reptile.

    He went back out about a week later, choosing a road in a more residential area. He followed the same procedure, putting the fake turtle in the middle of the lane, facing the far side of the road, as if it was early in its journey across. The second of the 50 cars to pass by that day swerved over the center line, its right tires pulverizing the plastic shell.

    "Wow! That didn't take long," Weaver said.

    Other cars during the hour missed the turtle. But right after his observation period was up, before Weaver could retrieve the model, another car moved to the right to hit the animal as he stood less than 20 feet away.

    "One hit in 50 cars is pretty significant when you consider it might take a turtle 10 minutes to cross the road," Weaver said.
    Source

    So what do you think? Is Homo sapiens just another Earth specie that is not much different than other species?
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    Aanker's Avatar Concordant
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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    If it's cute, it lives (dogs, ponies, cats, whatever). If it's creepy, it dies (everything else).

    I blame childhood entertainment and its hardly benevolent view on reptiles.

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    Aeneas Veneratio's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    We are savage animals, is that a surprise? We constantly delude ourselves with the notion that we are superior and more intelligent, well, it's a illusion and a crappy excuse for bad behaivour against other animals.

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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeneas Veneratio View Post
    We are savage animals, is that a surprise? We constantly delude ourselves with the notion that we are superior and more intelligent, well, it's a illusion and a crappy excuse for bad behaivour against other animals.
    Well, we are more intelligent, we have the largest brains relative to bodyweight by a substantial margin. Whether that makes us "superior", a rather subjective term, is another matter.

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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeneas Veneratio View Post
    If we are so intelligent, we wouldn't be killing animals for other reasons than self defence and survival. Killing just for pleasure is not a sign of intelligence, it's a sign of a undeveloped, deluded bully with sociopathic tendencies.
    Sorry, none of these things are qualifiers of intelligence.

    a. The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.
    b. The faculty of thought and reason.
    Killing for pleasure is cruel, but isn't unintelligent if you don't actually have to risk your life/anything.
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    Prosaic Visitant's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    Reptile racism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeneas Veneratio View Post
    We constantly delude ourselves with the notion that we are superior and more intelligent, well, it's a illusion and a crappy excuse for bad behaivour against other animals.
    Oh yeah, I heard how foxes manipulate electricity and fire or how gorillas construct skyscrapers...

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    Aeneas Veneratio's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    Quote Originally Posted by Prosaic Visitant View Post
    Reptile racism.


    Oh yeah, I heard how foxes manipulate electricity and fire or how gorillas construct skyscrapers...
    If we are so intelligent, we wouldn't be killing animals for other reasons than self defence and survival. Killing just for pleasure is not a sign of intelligence, it's a sign of a undeveloped, deluded bully with sociopathic tendencies.

    You do realize we are the only specie poluting our planet, right? We are toying with the balance of the only place we can currently inhabit, which is not really a sign of mastermind at work. I really hope that base on the Moon and/or on Mars is ready, when living on this planet becomes unsubstainable.
    Last edited by Aeneas Veneratio; December 27, 2012 at 07:26 PM.
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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeneas Veneratio View Post
    If we are so intelligent, we wouldn't be killing animals for other reasons than self defence and survival. Killing just for pleasure is not a sign of intelligence, it's a sign of a undeveloped, deluded bully with sociopathic tendencies.

    You do realize we are the only specie poluting our planet, right? We are toying with the balance of the only place we can currently inhabit, which is not really a sign of mastermind at work. I really hope that base on the Moon and/or on Mars is ready, when living on this planet becomes unsubstainable.
    Haha, this is actually a really great point. Can we really be considered 'intelligent' when we are at risk of triggering a significant shift in the global climate that may very well lead to mass extinction? We may be intelligent as individuals, but as a species? That is certainly debatable.

    And how we frame the question is rather important too. If we look at it from the perspective of our own society, who is superior: An extremely intelligent person who decides that mass murder is fun; or an average person who does their best to help those around them? Probably the person who helps others.

    If we translate that into a cross-species analysis, we as humans are most like the extremely intelligent person who kills for fun with little regard of the consequence. We literally kill for no real purpose (think sport hunting...or even this article). We also raise millions of animals in deplorable conditions for the sole purpose of slaughtering them...and then proceed to waste much of the food and resources they provide (ever throw away your leftovers? Or let food go bad?). And of course, we like playing god via genetic manipulation and are screwing over a ton of plant life by making them ill suited to their environment, and will die if we do not actively help them. And to top it off we are destroying the environment that every species in the world shares.

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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    Quote Originally Posted by Raining Red View Post
    who is superior: An extremely intelligent person who decides that mass murder is fun; or an average person who does their best to help those around them?
    Probably the intelligent person, since he would have more chance to be the last remain one in a duel of murdering feast between those two.
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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    Quote Originally Posted by Raining Red View Post
    And how we frame the question is rather important too. If we look at it from the perspective of our own society, who is superior: An extremely intelligent person who decides that mass murder is fun; or an average person who does their best to help those around them? Probably the person who helps others.
    .
    Whatever fits one's arbitrary and temporary definition.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    So what do you think would happen to the human race if everyone was as 'superior' as that person? Wouldn't it simply result in nothing more than pure chaos and destruction? How would that be superior?

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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    Quote Originally Posted by Raining Red View Post
    So what do you think would happen to the human race if everyone was as 'superior' as that person? Wouldn't it simply result in nothing more than pure chaos and destruction? How would that be superior?
    If everyone is as superior as that person then meaningless conflicts probably would stop, since it would be too costly to fight eachother. On the other hand, it may also lead to several dudes group together to fight others, and to counter this group others would also form groups together - that however does not change the fact the it is a death match of surviving in the end, just it becomes a big gang fight.

    That is, in fact, how Clausewitz defines war is - a big gang fight.
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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    If we are so intelligent, we wouldn't be killing animals for other reasons than self defence and survival. Killing just for pleasure is not a sign of intelligence, it's a sign of a undeveloped, deluded bully with sociopathic tendencies.
    I guess we are just like Orcas and Dolphins.

    You do realize we are the only specie poluting our planet, right? We are toying with the balance of the only place we can currently inhabit, which is not really a sign of mastermind at work. I really hope that base on the Moon and/or on Mars is ready, when living on this planet becomes unsubstainable.
    A bit of a pontification. What about all algae/bacteria that helped produce oxygen they thoughtlessly altered the balance of the planet... seems more like what happens. I admit if we like the Earth the way it is we should likely act to keep it that way, but we are hardly the first life form to impact the nature of the Earth.
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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    I don't know, the only thing I ever hit was a field mouse and I felt awful afterwards.

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    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeneas Veneratio View Post
    If we are so intelligent, we wouldn't be killing animals for other reasons than self defence and survival. Killing just for pleasure is not a sign of intelligence, it's a sign of a undeveloped, deluded bully with sociopathic tendencies.
    We built those sky scrapers so we could knock them down. We developed electricity so we could zap people. All the intelligent animals seem to enjoy torturing and killing. Orcas play a blood sport variant of catch with temporarily live seals, dolphins savagely murder offspring so they can rape the mothers, and chimpanzees appear to wage Guerilla wars against one another. You'll also note that hive insects which have collective intelligence are well disposed to using mass mobilizations and chemical warfare to exterminate their competitors in the most horrible ways imaginable.

    You do realize we are the only specie poluting our planet, right? We are toying with the balance of the only place we can currently inhabit, which is not really a sign of mastermind at work. I really hope that base on the Moon and/or on Mars is ready, when living on this planet becomes unsubstainable.
    What are we polluting the planet with? Oh yeah, tiny parts of the planet's surface and atmosphere which we're just moving around from one place to another. That makes sense.

    Pollution is like tracking in mud. The mud "belongs" outside (according to us), we brought it inside by accident, and we feel a need to clean it up.

    Look, if I throw my aluminum can on the ground how is that any more dangerous to anything than the aluminum being in a seam of ore? If I throw paper on the ground will it not rot like the plant material it is? Does glass not become sand again? If I litter plastic will it last forever or will bacteria dissolve it? If I put CO2 in the air from burning fuel will the plants not convert it into Oxygen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raining Red View Post
    Haha, this is actually a really great point. Can we really be considered 'intelligent' when we are at risk of triggering a significant shift in the global climate that may very well lead to mass extinction? We may be intelligent as individuals, but as a species? That is certainly debatable.
    What mass extinction? Heat increases biodiversity. Cold causes extinction or migration which leads to environmental pressure. Evolve, adapt, overcome. Have some faith in life. It's survived much worse than humanity making plastic, which frankly is the only thing we've done that's really changing the chemical make up of the environment.

    And how we frame the question is rather important too. If we look at it from the perspective of our own society, who is superior: An extremely intelligent person who decides that mass murder is fun; or an average person who does their best to help those around them? Probably the person who helps others.
    I think the people who help themselves are superior.

    If we translate that into a cross-species analysis, we as humans are most like the extremely intelligent person who kills for fun with little regard of the consequence. We literally kill for no real purpose (think sport hunting...or even this article).
    Yes, because there is no purpose to sport hunting. Do you know what conservationism is? Heads up, it usually involves a loaded rifle.

    We also raise millions of animals in deplorable conditions for the sole purpose of slaughtering them...and then proceed to waste much of the food and resources they provide (ever throw away your leftovers? Or let food go bad?).
    They wouldn't be alive at all if we weren't raising them in deplorable conditions to slaughter them. We don't waste food any more than other predators do. Our leftovers feed organisms down the food chain.

    If I'm hungry I'd like to be able to afford a large hunk of protein carved from the bleeding carcass of some poor animal to go with my fruits, vegetables, dairy, grains, and such. I'm an omnivore and that means I can't hear your screams over the sound of how awesome I am.

    And of course, we like playing god via genetic manipulation and are screwing over a ton of plant life by making them ill suited to their environment, and will die if we do not actively help them. And to top it off we are destroying the environment that every species in the world shares.
    Luckily there is no God that I'm aware of. However I am aware that our genetic manipulation has saved millions of human lives, and those plants again exist because we cultivate them.

    We are not destroying the environment. We aren't raping the environment. There isn't some perfect environment or perfect climate for all life. It's constantly changing, it's chaotic. We're trying to bring order to the chaos to benefit ourselves. The air is clean. The water is clean. The soil is dirty (as it should be). You're apparently worried that we're now doing things that we've been doing for thousands of years, but this time it's different.

    Besides' we're preserving biodiversity as it is.
    Last edited by Col. Tartleton; December 28, 2012 at 01:09 AM.
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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    Don't get it at all, title makes no sense.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    Hmm I remember trying to save abandoned pet turtles from cruel kids impaling them with popsicle sticks to no avail. But then again, I don't mind squashing spiders so.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    Quote Originally Posted by Closetu View Post
    Hmm I remember trying to save abandoned pet turtles from cruel kids impaling them with popsicle sticks to no avail. But then again, I don't mind squashing spiders so.
    And that is exactly 7 years of bad luck for you according to my grandmother. And she was wise. Do you break mirrors and cross after black cats as well?

    On topic, one of the crucial attributes of any serial killer is the depersonification of the victim. It is arguably easier to depersonify a turtle, especially if it is not your turtle.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    I've always held an appreciation for other life forms for the most part. I instinctively look for human like characteristics in other creatures which has shaped my actions toward them.

    Though I tend to draw the line on things that challenge me directly, invade my home or space or person. I have a shaky truce with arachnids which could change at any moment.

    I will if possible assist a non-threatening bug towards the door rather than kill it.

    If I kill something that was harmless (such as a bug) I tend to think of my own insignificance in the universe and how easily mother nature could squash me.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Forget about animal rights or whatever, human is just a cruel specie that enjoy murdering other species

    I see no reason why intelligence even comes in to question. Last I checked none of the other species on Earth even understand what an atom is, let alone harnesses its awesome power. I admit I was not with Neil Armstrong on the moon, but I believe there were no moon bears, never mind moon bears with guns and motorcycles. I'm also unaware of any other species that can communicate across a continent in a matter of seconds with one of its ilk. In fact I've never seen a pig rip out a humans heart valve for its own health. All practices that we may perform by virtue of our brilliant application of our knowledge of the world around us.

    But what do I know. I'm merely a foolish human.
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