Can a faction change sides?

**kingme90** · December 25, 2012, 11:07 PM

I was wondering if there was any way for you to take an evil faction and make it good or vice versa? Also is it possible to have a unit that normally carries different weapons to have them use one weapon, like say could I have the Gundabad Orc Marauders to carrie only spiked hammers?

**Withwnar** · December 26, 2012, 12:27 AM

Faction side: Do you mean via modding or within the game?

**Macilrille** · December 26, 2012, 05:06 AM

I think he means in the game. And if that is the case, the answer is no. Unless played by you- I have let Dunland change sides in MOS for example.

As for the weapons, only by changing the unit via modding.

Welcome to the Forum. I hope you will enjoy your stay.

**Ngugi** · December 26, 2012, 09:09 AM

You can disobey Sauron and make war against other Followers of Sauron - sooner or later Sauron will discommunicate you and you'll likely to end up in war against all evil factions since Sauron will have discommunicated factions are prio targets for Invasions.
This may happend for AI evil factions too but then is a random event since it's not common that evil faction start war against each other.

**kingme90** · December 26, 2012, 09:50 AM

I did mean modding for both questions, I should have been more clear. Of course this raises the question of why can't I change the side of a faction through modding?

**Withwnar** · December 26, 2012, 10:17 AM

That is possible, yes.

The evil factions all share the catholic religion which means they all can join Invasions against non-catholic (or excommunicated) factions. There are also campaign AI rules that tend to make evil factions work against good factions and vice versa. The AI has two groups called "good" and "evil" so in that respect there are 'sides' but Dwarves have their own group.

If you wanted to make an evil faction good then they should be prevented from joining invasions. You can change their religion ("religion" in descr_strat.txt) but their "culture" (religion) buildings are for catholic/Melkor so you would need to change the religion building they can build. Or excommunicate them and keep them excommunicated (with script). You can also change their ai_label to "good" (in descr_strat.txt). Ideally I think you would need to change their religion and their ai_label. There might be other rules in the campaign AI (descr_campaign_ai_db.xml) that assume certain factions are on a particular side.

Likewise for good factions to evil. All up not a simple thing to do properly, but doable.

**Gazi Husrev-Beg** · December 26, 2012, 10:42 AM

Barons Samedi had this in his mod compilations. Basically after awhile, whn you have gotten real strong with either Rhun or Harad, you could declare rebellion against Sauron.

**Kiliç Alì** · December 26, 2012, 11:12 AM

You can also make conversion scripts for all factions once they are too weak\strong and change their victory conditions aswell - but this requires some scripting knowledge. It involves only one file tought...

**Deceneus** · December 26, 2012, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by kingme90

I was wondering if there was any way for you to take an evil faction and make it good or vice versa? Also is it possible to have a unit that normally carries different weapons to have them use one weapon, like say could I have the Gundabad Orc Marauders to carrie only spiked hammers?

Yes, the script that changes Eriador to Arnor changes the factions religion. You can write a script to do that. What I find interesting is having a script for Rhun or Harad to revolt from Sauron and NOT become good. So convert them to being pagans. Let's face it, those guys would want to replace Sauron and not necessarily become good.

And you need to explain your second question better. Lots of units only have one weapon:

stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 0, 1

**Macilrille** · December 27, 2012, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by Deceneus

Yes, the script that changes Eriador to Arnor changes the factions religion. You can write a script to do that. What I find interesting is having a script for Rhun or Harad to revolt from Sauron and NOT become good. So convert them to being pagans. Let's face it, those guys would want to replace Sauron and not necessarily become good.

And you need to explain your second question better. Lots of units only have one weapon:

stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 0, 1

Lorewise, no they would not. They worshipped Sauron like a God and I would imagine that he had a priesthood in place to ensure that they obeyed his will.

**Gandalfus** · December 27, 2012, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by Macilrille

Lorewise, no they would not. They worshipped Sauron like a God and I would imagine that he had a priesthood in place to ensure that they obeyed his will.

They could if some rather extreme circumstances came to pass... Ie; sauron's defeat and the re-united kingdom

**kingme90** · December 27, 2012, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Deceneus

Yes, the script that changes Eriador to Arnor changes the factions religion. You can write a script to do that. What I find interesting is having a script for Rhun or Harad to revolt from Sauron and NOT become good. So convert them to being pagans. Let's face it, those guys would want to replace Sauron and not necessarily become good.

And you need to explain your second question better. Lots of units only have one weapon:

stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 0, 1

So what is the name of the script I would need to change to make a faction good or evil?

**Withwnar** · December 27, 2012, 12:13 AM

"Eriador to Arnor" that is. But it also has EDB stuff so that Arnor can build the new religion's culture buildings instead of the old religion's. And script to support that EDB stuff. And script to destroy the old-religion buildings. So yeah, you could copy all of that and reuse it for e.g. Harad to good. But Harad will still be using the "evil" ai_label as I explained above. Script can change it to use "good" instead.

**Withwnar** · December 27, 2012, 03:15 AM

And you need to explain your second question better. Lots of units only have one weapon

I think he means visually some soldiers have different weapons within the same unit. e.g Some have hammers, some have axes or whatever. It would require modding the models to change that.

**~~oOIYvYIOo~~** · December 27, 2012, 04:29 AM

In my campaign that im playing ,Silvan Elves are at war against Dwarfes and Rohan ,turns 200.They are almost destroyed.

**Dragonchampion** · December 27, 2012, 01:41 PM

I'm be interested into learning how to make mods that could make evil factions turn good and vise-versa... perhaps a rule that says "If Faction A is Allied with Gondor, Rohan, and Eriador, then change culture to Men, and excommunicate.

**Deceneus** · December 27, 2012, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by kingme90

So what is the name of the script I would need to change to make a faction good or evil?

...\Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign\campaign_script.txt

Look at the Arnor sections for "Arnor Union", the "accept" part and the tech tree below that.

Then look at how the "dunedain_turks" counter is used in the \data\export_descr_building.txt file. You aren't changing units but need to have a counter to change religious buildings.

Withnar's correct about the AI. I am assuming however that most people would want a faction to change sides, if they were that faction. So in that case it wouldn't matter. Otherwise, you need to follow Withnars suggestion.

Originally Posted by Macilrille

Lorewise, no they would not. They worshipped Sauron like a God and I would imagine that he had a priesthood in place to ensure that they obeyed his will.

The OP is asking for the ability to have factions change sides between good and evil, but my suggestion isn't lore accurate?

It is also far more lore accurate than changing Eriador to Arnor or Dale to Rhovanion. Historically, people worshiped the Egyptian Pharaohs as gods but that didn't stop them from revolting against them.