if anyone says scotland and pikes are underpowered

[Highlander of Scotland]

about 10 minutes ago in my scottish campaign I fought a battle against the danes, they had ballistas, archers and cav against and army of pikes, one hospitllar (and unfortunantley the general was assassinated the turn before). I thought it was all over, even though I lost the battle was heroic. My pikes stood up to tonnes of fire from artillery and only routed 2 minutes before the batlle. I would have one if it was not for the assassination of my general. I badly blooded their armies and have now got reinforcements from London to crush them.
IMO this proves that pikes are effective.

[Gimnbo]

Are these Noble Pikes? Noble Pikes are pretty powerful units in their own right and wouldn't necessarily prove the effectiveness of pikes. I also think pikes are underrated, but unless these were the pikemen who aren't walking tin cans I don't think it proves anything.

[Highlander of Scotland]

no it was the regular militia with a few scots pikes

[FountainGuard]

....O....k.... This is kinda random. No one said they were underpowered or I'm mistaken. I'm not saying this is bad or anything, just I don't know if this is thread-worthy.

[Highlander of Scotland]

ok sorry im new

[Maklodes]

Congrats on narrowly losing to Denmark in a tough battle, I suppose. As a Scottish general, what's your plan if Poland sends a stack with lots of strzelcy your way? What's to stop them from using mobility and range to pick off your pikes safely? Of course, you don't have to use pikes in your army for this threat -- but what would you use? Noble highland archers? Ballistas? Border horse?

Poland is something of a arbitrary example, other than being fairly close to Scotland, but really every faction east of Vienna gets some sort of missile cavalry with range equivalent to Scottish archers at the "wooden castle" level or earlier: the Byzantines (skythikon, Byzantine cavalry), Egypt (Mamluk archers), Hungary (Magyar cavalry, Hungarian nobles), Poland (Strzelcy), Russia (Kazaks), and the Turks (Turkish horse archers, Turkomans, sipahis).

(Personally, I'd say your best bet is to hire lots of crossbow mercenaries, if you do find yourself facing such armies, but that's more a stopgap making up for Scotland's problems than a negation of them.)

[Highlander of Scotland]

i love the highland nobles though they are so good and can beat armoured sergeants plus their arrows are really good. One unit killed 400 enemies (though it was my only ranged unit in a seige.)

[Highlander of Scotland]

or just let them seige you then march on their cities. I am doing that against venice and have done so against milan. I find that the AI rarely uses effective army combinations. It could be considered cheating but when I see an AI army that is nearly a full stack of seige weapons i just auto win because it gives the same amount of casualties that I get

[Highlander of Scotland]

or just let them seige you then march on their cities. I am doing that against venice and have done so against milan. I find that the AI rarely uses effective army combinations. It could be considered cheating but when I see an AI army that is nearly a full stack of seige weapons i just auto win because it gives the same amount of casualties that I get

I also because I feal cheated. Especially when I actually want a decent battle with my elite gold chevron army under my full command and chivary/dread general.

[Highlander of Scotland]

Congrats on narrowly losing to Denmark in a tough battle, I suppose. As a Scottish general, what's your plan if Poland sends a stack with lots of strzelcy your way? What's to stop them from using mobility and range to pick off your pikes safely? Of course, you don't have to use pikes in your army for this threat -- but what would you use? Noble highland archers? Ballistas? Border horse?

Poland is something of a arbitrary example, other than being fairly close to Scotland, but really every faction east of Vienna gets some sort of missile cavalry with range equivalent to Scottish archers at the "wooden castle" level or earlier: the Byzantines (skythikon, Byzantine cavalry), Egypt (Mamluk archers), Hungary (Magyar cavalry, Hungarian nobles), Poland (Strzelcy), Russia (Kazaks), and the Turks (Turkish horse archers, Turkomans, sipahis).

(Personally, I'd say your best bet is to hire lots of crossbow mercenaries, if you do find yourself facing such armies, but that's more a stopgap making up for Scotland's problems than a negation of them.)

a polish army besieged metz (garrisoned by spear millitia) they have tonnes of polish nobles. So am a bit annoyed. Also I find that scotland's highland archers are some of the best in the game ( insane attack and defence stats( 2 lower attack than highlanders and I believe they also have 9 defence). Though they should get stakes and ap + long range missiles as the scots did use longbows a lot. I am not sure but probably more than they used the short bow.

My plan is to hide behind my walls or go on the offensive and find a good defensive position.

[FountainGuard]

It's alright. In fact, I did something like that when I was new. Welcome to the Forums.

[Highlander of Scotland]

thank you

[Ne Obliviscaris]

Pikes still suck because they cannot beat infantry (Aventuros, Noble Pikes and occasionally Heavy Pike Militia excepted). They switch to swords too quickly and they just die. They don't keep the enemy at arms length and get slaughtered by all but the most basic spear units. Even well armoured cavalry (Like 6 chevron Mongol heavy Lancers) don't die before they force the pikes to use close quarters weapons, thus losing their bonus and dying. They simply do not serve a purpose beyond stopping a charge and being a meat shield in my experience. Sorry about that.

[Firey the Unorthodox]

The pike square is an effective tactic.

[King of the Ring]

for who sais the pikes are underrated....remember the phalanx......sarissa the MOTHER OF ALL PIKES

[PrestigeX]

They're pretty good units ,
you'll do way better if you use them with 'regular' infantry, then it all becomes unstoppable melee horde.
when you engage enemy infantry you'll want the 'non pike' soldiers to take front ranks and the pikemen behind will be able to prod and poke from the rear.
ofcourse, the pikes provide cover from cav too

if you march out an army that is all pike, or Mostly pikes -- they are easily overwhelmed -
there's a reason Scotland has all these other infantry types to compliment their pikes

the trick is the differing 'marchin' speeds between infantry / pikes , once you're used to that- it's easy to keep the units close together.

[Aymer de Valence]

for who sais the pikes are underrated....remember the phalanx......sarissa the MOTHER OF ALL PIKES

Lol sarissa's/phalanx pikemen + forwards march vs eastern infantry/hillmen. Damn, you don't that sort of fun from Empire or Shogun II

[eugenioso]

pikes themselves arent bad, its just that its a huge stepdown to RTW's sarissa. the one advantage that the pike gives in the game, besides the added bonus to fighting cavalry, is the range. when in formation, the enemy melee troops have to fight 3 enemy ranks of pikes instead of only the front ranks. the result is larger amounts of casualties for the enemy. however, pike troops usually have a low amount of defensive skill, and pikes suffer a melee malus vs infantry, just like spear units. also, as you may have figured, they have to be in formation beforehand. and if the enemy had half a brain, they would flank them. and ALSO they dont have shields, a big letdown since it means their units get slain easily by archers.

historically, the scots fought in big Schiltron formations, usually a thousand men per schiltron, and fought the enemy through push of spears and pikes, enough to keep enemy cavalry away from them, but they were notoriously weak to archers.

[Duncan III]

Scottish archers are okay because they can fight well in melee.
Cavalry archers and crossbowmen are deadly but a combination of border horse (will catch anything) and Templars or Hospitallers following up will wreck them.

[Kaiser Nonsense]

I read all that bloody pike guide and gave me nothin' useful. I still want to fix this pike bug in game, does anyone know how to do it? I heard it was meant to remove their swords, so they will use pike ALWAYS.