FALL OF ROME: IN HOC SIGNO VINCES (early 4th century Late Roman mod)

[karaislam]

Oh my, I can imagine the pains you've suffered. Milkshape isn't my favorite program either. I was happy to find out that 3ds Max is all you need for making M2TW models. Knighterrant has written a script for 3ds Max that allows you to import and export .ms3d formats. Here's some info on it:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=132343
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=151655

Also, johnwhile has released a tool for 3ds max that allows you to directly import and save .mesh files:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=419049

I'd recommend you to get and learn 3ds Max (or Gmax). It's a fairly intuitive program and once you get the hang of it, you don't want anything else.

I believe this should get you going. And thanks!



The Anno Diocletiani thing was something I came up with just before posting this thread. I certainly didn't want to use our own method of numbering years (Anno Domini), because it was very very rare in ancient times and became the standard in the west in only the 8th or 9th century AD (Anno Domini that is ).
The method of numbering years using A.U.C. (Ab Urbe Condita or Anno Urbis Conditiae) was also an option, but I decided to go for Anno Diocletiani because it presents the reign of Diocletian and his creation of the Tetrarchy as a milestone and even a turning point in Roman history (and his reign is usually regarded as the start of the late Roman era).

thanks for explaining.take care.

[xxxMoRaVexxx]

Thanks. Yes, it's a lot of work and won't be finished anytime soon. And it's both an idea and I'm working on it personally. I've done a number of things already. The basic map is ready (though naked and needs some cleaning up), the basic Roman unit list is pretty much done, certain units, models and assets have been touched as well, though all are not final.

Here are some WIP pics of some older stuff. Nearly everything has been retouched (new things added, textures updated etc.), but it gives you a clue as to what I'm aiming for.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Btw, the Rusichi team and the Roma Surrectum team deserve some credit for some of the textures used in this version, which were used as a base to work from.


Also, I'm playing with the thought of making Galerius function as a pope seated in Nicomedia since he was the most senior emperor in the East (together with Maximinus Daia in Antioch) and acting as the protector of the Tetrarchy. I hope it's possible to have the Kalmar Union script working on the papal faction. So once he's dead, Nicomedia will turn to Maximinus and there would be little restrictions to attack other Roman factions (no pope threatening you with excommunications anymore). But this remains to be seen.

Awesome idea, models and textures. At last, an M2TW mod covering this period in history. I like how you optimize M2TW Kingdom's scripts and the plans you are laying to incorporate them into this mod. Anyways, hope all the best for this project, looks like it has a lot of potential in it. +rep

[Deutschland]

Whats wrong with AD? Or do you mean the specific year?

24 AD is high imperial age. These units are diocletian. Anno Diocletiani would make sense eventho I never heard of such a counting.

[NekoGenijalan]

Sounds interesting, great work and subscribing to this thread to watch closely . Good luck!

[Col. Tartleton]

A suggestion if you will. Have each Roman Diocese be a Pseudo Roman Faction. So that would be say Britain, Gaul, Vienna, Spain, Suburbicaria, Annonaria, Africa, Pannonia, Dacia, Macedonia, Thrace, Asia, Pontus, Oriens, and Egypt. That gives you the ability to see additional fragmentation or unification. Then you throw the Germans into the mix: Franks, Burgundy, Swabia, Goths, Vandals, Lombards, etc. Then you throw in the Huns, Sarmatians, and Sassanids, etc. Really make it anybody's game. I mean the mid-late Roman Empire from the third century crisis on was pretty much endless fragmentation and reunification. Or alternatively use a dynastic system rather than territories. So rather than a Western Roman Empire have a faction be the Constantinians.

I mean Constantinus's father Constantius was born in Illyria (as was Constantinus, they were Illyrian), but came up through the civil wars against Palmyra but then wound up spending most of his career operating as lieutenant Emperor in the western half the Empire, so he was fighting against Carausius who declared himself Emperor of Britain and Gaul, then he was operating along the German/Gallic frontier and set up his capital from Trier. Then he's in Britain fighting Frankish mercenaries, then he's taking the fight to the Allamani and Franks back in Germany. He's all over the place.

I'm not quite sure how you'd set it up if you went down that path, but I think that'd be an interesting option. Roman Britain would be Roman, but it would be different from Roman Syria/ Carausius's faction would be different from Odaenathus' faction. I'd do a 3 start point set up. The Early in the third century crisis (The Rise of Diocletian). The High during the period you're discussing (The Rise of Constantine) and then maybe a late period around the Theodosians and how the Germans managed to become the new Romans.

I mean it's a very intricate era (the spatter analysis of the proverbial hitting the fan) that doesn't get a ton of coverage. I mean everyone knows Julius Caesar and Augustus, Rome beating on it's neighbors was fairly straightforward, but who knows about Theodosius and Stilicho and Honorius. I mean I don't even understand the era, it's quite complicated. A lot was going on. Germans and Romans were intermarrying all over the place, different tribes were fighting different Roman factions, things were starting to become noticeably Byzantine.

I mean Barbarian Invasion was a nice game, but it wasn't how things happened.

[Razor]

I believe factions should be a bit of both: both regional factions and potential dynasties. M2TW mechanics often mess up family trees anyway.
The idea about regional Roman subfactions is indeed something I've been thinking about myself as well. However I'm not much of a coder and don't know for sure what exactly can and what cannot be done. It would certainly be interesting if we can include certain emergent Roman subfactions appear in the diocese capitals and can take over whole dioceses. The thing is how to represent it in M2TW in such a way to have it make sense? As far as I'm aware of only shadow factions can make a general and his army switch sides. Though Britain certainly makes a good candidate to have an emergent Roman subfaction. We'll have to figure out what works best. And as of now having factions shadowing each other is the easiest solution.
Indeed it's a very interesting period, but also a complicated period (like you said). It's hard to do it justice in M2TW. For now I'm sticking to this one 'simple' scenario with the main focus being the fall of the Tetrarchy and the goal becoming the winning man in all of this.

[Hrobatos]

well using religion as ethnicity could perhaps do, with pope system. So that you have one major Emperor and each factions needs to secure that, something like how in Westeros Total War they made that each House needs to secure King title.

[Slaxx Hatmen]

Hah! I knew you'd come back to the Late Roman era Razor! Something about this period always seemed right for a Total War mod and I always feel myself coming back to it.(That and it being one of my favorite periods in history as well.)

I know this is probably way too early to ask, but how will you handle the Germanic/Barbarian factions? What I mean is, will we be stuck with ragged war bands the whole game? Or do you eventually plan on giving them some sort of mid-to-late game transition into the more "semi-civilized" christian kingdoms of the early dark ages? This would be especially considering ones who successfully conquer Roman territory and set up shop there.

[Razor]

well using religion as ethnicity could perhaps do, with pope system. So that you have one major Emperor and each factions needs to secure that, something like how in Westeros Total War they made that each House needs to secure King title.

It's still an idea that could have a few nasty side effects.

Hah! I knew you'd come back to the Late Roman era Razor! Something about this period always seemed right for a Total War mod and I always feel myself coming back to it.(That and it being one of my favorite periods in history as well.)

I know this is probably way too early to ask, but how will you handle the Germanic/Barbarian factions? What I mean is, will we be stuck with ragged war bands the whole game? Or do you eventually plan on giving them some sort of mid-to-late game transition into the more "semi-civilized" christian kingdoms of the early dark ages? This would be especially considering ones who successfully conquer Roman territory and set up shop there.

I didn't know I was that predictable.

It's indeed a bit early, but I plan to allow the Germanic tribes to train 'Romanesque' troops in Roman territory only.

[Hrobatos]

It would ofc, but it could also be interesting option, to force in that manner all Roman factions to fight among each other in order to secure Imperial throne, and unite Roman Empire, much like how each House in Westeros needs to secure Iron throne and unite Westeros. So I guess papal system from vanilla is a base, but what Westeros did, similar system could add a lot of flavor to Roman factions.

[Heathen Storm]

If you need a modeler for the Germanic tribes let me know. I'm a bit pressed for time as of now but I would love to help. Although I'm not sure my modeling could stand up to the beauty that you make!

[The Despondent Mind]

Gonna wait for this one .

[Razor]

Updated first two posts and added pics. I was kind of unsure how to preview the stuff I have, but then thought: what the hell. Here's a selection of what I have to make things more 'substantial' for the community.

[karaislam]

i liked them much even i dont like romans-roman era etc.especially helmet textures very nice.

[julianus heraclius]

Looks fantastic Razor.

[Archagetes]

Looks nice, I like those drace standards

[Joar]

Awesome stuff, Razor!

[Finlander]

Excellent looking models! I must say I like the faces a lot. +rep

[Murfmurf]

Looks great! Great time period and agree wholeheartedly with your stance on historical accuracy.

If you need any help with 2D stuff further down the line let me know!

[Razor]

Thank you all for the kind words.

@MHP: I guess I have to do my best to make you like the Roman era . Though this representative for the period just before your time period's mod (End of Antiquity) so it's not that much of a stretch.

@Archagetes: Yes, the draco standards turned out pretty good. They also come in a number of varieties.

@Murfmurf: Thanks. I'll keep it in mind.