Preview VI: The Warriors of the Steppe

[Joar]

Thank You all for Your kind words!

[Deutschland]

Any chance that we get to see a new steppe ui?

[Lanciarius_90]

Nice. So this is all steppe faction ? What about vandals and other eastern faction ?

[Knonfoda]

Nice. So this is all steppe faction ? What about vandals and other eastern faction ?

The Vandals, at this time known as the "Hasdingi/Silingi" weren't actually very powerful or influential as a tribe or group, only becoming a serious headache for Rome and other tribes late in the 4th and 5th centuries. They are also more of a Germanic than steppe faction.

As for the east... well, all in good time...

[Joar]

Any chance that we get to see a new steppe ui?

Yes.

[KAST]

Guys, it's just perfect! Want to ask, regarding translation. Will be this unit description used in the mod?

[Emperor Caesar]

Haha yes more barbarian hordes for my legions to crush! Roma Victor!

[mircea]

The preview looks really awesome, especially the Alanic cataphracts and the flax wielding Carpi

Now, you made me wondering of how (if) you'll portray two other major barbarian meances from III century: Carpi and the Bastarnae?

[Spartan 666]

I'm just...astonished! You guys are like gods, this mod will surely be one of the most (if not THE most) impressive EVER! Keep up, we are all immensly grateful for your hard and magnificient work!

[Lionheart]

Excelent preview...this time it will be much fun to sack both persian and romans with these steppe warriors. A excelent preview as always and a great christmas present. Great art...

[DRIFTER anonymous]

I dont understand how the heruli have scythians in there army.

[Knonfoda]

I dont understand how the heruli have scythians in there army.

If you bother to read the historical background, you'll find out why.

[Joar]

I dont understand how the heruli have scythians in there army.

The term that answers several of the questions posed in this thread is tribal confederacy. During the migration era, several so called tribal confederacies formed, split apart, reformed and so on. Take for example the union of the group of Alans and Vandals, who joined forces in their invasion of Roman territory in the 5th century. Or the best example of a very powerful confederacy, namely the Huns. The Huns themselves were never a homogenic group but consisted of many different Hunnic tribes, who in turn absorbed ( either through conquest or voluntary alliances ) many tribes of various ethnicities, be it Germanic, Schytian, Slavic and so on.

The Saka who have joined the Heruli in the RO campaign have done so in order to gain power, prestige, and above all, wealth. Don't interpret this as if all the Saka have joined forces with the Heruli, but rather that some Saka tribes have done so. Perhaps they were subjugated by the Heruli, or simply decided to join them to increase their own status.

[DRIFTER anonymous]

The term that answers several of the questions posed in this thread is tribal confederacy. During the migration era, several so called tribal confederacies formed, split apart, reformed and so on. Take for example the union of the group of Alans and Vandals, who joined forces in their invasion of Roman territory in the 5th century. Or the best example of a very powerful confederacy, namely the Huns. The Huns themselves were never a homogenic group but consisted of many different Hunnic tribes, who in turn absorbed ( either through conquest or voluntary alliances ) many tribes of various ethnicities, be it Germanic, Schytian, Slavic and so on.

The Saka who have joined the Heruli in the RO campaign have done so in order to gain power, prestige, and above all, wealth. Don't interpret this as if all the Saka have joined forces with the Heruli, but rather that some Saka tribes have done so. Perhaps they were subjugated by the Heruli, or simply decided to join them to increase their own status.

All the Roman accounts of the scythians during this time refer to the region not the people. when the are talking about the peoples they were talking about the goths and Heruli. There were no true scythians left. What was left of their people was absorbed by other similar peoples like the sarmations.The romans don't even call them saka that is a persian word. I guess my point is that Id rather not see the name saka having anything to do with the Heruli. Just cause the Romans grouped them together doesn't mean anything these two did not work together. In fact it was the opposite The killed what would be called the saka.

[Knonfoda]

All the Roman accounts of the scythians during this time refer to the region not the people. when the are talking about the peoples they were talking about the goths and Heruli. There were no true scythians left. What was left of their people was absorbed by other similar peoples like the sarmations.The romans don't even call them saka that is a persian word. I guess my point is that Id rather not see the name saka having anything to do with the Heruli. Just cause the Romans grouped them together doesn't mean anything these two did not work together. In fact it was the opposite The killed what would be called the saka.

Actually, Roman accounts of the time refer to many more tribes and peoples than just "Goths and Heruli". In fact, while they do refer to the region as "Scythia" - even by this time, the Romans themselves were beginning to distinguish between the different tribes and confederations, like Goths (which didn't exist at this time, but more like Iuthungi and Greuthingi) and so forth.

As for Saka being a Persian term, that is not the point. The unit names aren't meant to be Romano-centric, that is, we are not aiming to name every unit as they were known to the Romans, but as they would have been known to themselves. As for "Killed what would be called the Saka" - the Saka would have provided their services, whether through alliance or conquest, to any of the neighbouring tribes. As such, there is no reason not to include them as a unit working for tribes such as the Heruli.

You realise the Heruli traveled through the steppes before settling in Germania, right?

[demagogos nicator]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Is it possible to fix the shields of this guys to not interfere with their shoulders?

[julianus heraclius]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Is it possible to fix the shields of this guys to not interfere with their shoulders?

Yes, this will be fixed. Thanks for pointing it out.

[char]

Another great preview, well done

[DRIFTER anonymous]

Actually, Roman accounts of the time refer to many more tribes and peoples than just "Goths and Heruli". In fact, while they do refer to the region as "Scythia" - even by this time, the Romans themselves were beginning to distinguish between the different tribes and confederations, like Goths (which didn't exist at this time, but more like Iuthungi and Greuthingi) and so forth.

As for Saka being a Persian term, that is not the point. The unit names aren't meant to be Romano-centric, that is, we are not aiming to name every unit as they were known to the Romans, but as they would have been known to themselves. As for "Killed what would be called the Saka" - the Saka would have provided their services, whether through alliance or conquest, to any of the neighbouring tribes. As such, there is no reason not to include them as a unit working for tribes such as the Heruli.

You realise the Heruli traveled through the steppes before settling in Germania, right?

The Scythians never called themselves scythians or Saka. I just dont agree. None of the people of the steppe would have themselves with either of those names. I done agree steppe peoples would have provided there services. Just like I have said in my other post I just dont like calling themselves Saka. As far a the Heruli. They went as far as western Ukraine, and that is debatable. There is no True evidence of them there in any kind of large groups.

[Knonfoda]

The Scythians never called themselves scythians or Saka. I just dont agree. None of the people of the steppe would have themselves with either of those names. I done agree steppe peoples would have provided there services. Just like I have said in my other post I just dont like calling themselves Saka. As far a the Heruli. They went as far as western Ukraine, and that is debatable. There is no True evidence of them there in any kind of large groups.

There doesn't seem to be much we agree on, unfortunately. I've not once said they called themselves "Scythians" - I've said the Romans called them that, but were beginning to distinguish already the different tribes and groups by that time. I suggest you read what I'm actually writing more carefully. As for the Saka, where we don't know what we would have called themselves, we use the nearest available source, whether it be in Latin, Greek, Persian, Aramaic or what have you - Persian in this case.

As for the Heruli, Procopius and Ammianus specifically states that it was they who led the two expeditions (and pretty big, inter-tribal expeditions at that) against the Roman Empire. It is literally, right there in the history books. If they had the clout to command a number of other tribes, it is fair to assume they must have been pretty large and powerful by that time. They were said to have fielded quite a significant force, even if ancient numbers need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

If you want to downright ignore the only historical sources we have for that time, feel free, but don't then turn around and say "there is no evidence." Feel free to come up with your own mod and name and place those tribes however you like.