Removing Gunpowder

**Kaiser Nonsense** · December 18, 2012, 04:13 AM

I did a little search and found squat.

How do I remove gunpowder from the game, especially from the Crusades expansion?

And please, be specific, I'm no modder, don't simply say "Go and edit the file".

**PapaRosario** · December 18, 2012, 08:56 AM

Go to Medieval 2 Total War/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_events.txt and find the gunpowder event. There are actually two gunpowder events written within the file. Make sure you find the one that doesn't have semicolons at the beginning of every line.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Change the date to something really high that wouldn't happen over the course of a normal campaign. The date is the number of years from the start of the campaign that the event happens. So changing it to 1000, for example, would make gunpowder happen in the year 2080.

Now to change it for the Crusades campaign, go to Medieval 2 Total War/mods/crusades/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_events.txt and find the gunpowder event again.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Again, change the date to a really high number.

The above isn't the most elegant way to remove gunpowder from the game. But it's definitely the easiest way.

**Kaiser Nonsense** · December 18, 2012, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by PapaRosario

Go to Medieval 2 Total War/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_events.txt and find the gunpowder event. There are actually two gunpowder events written within the file. Make sure you find the one that doesn't have semicolons at the beginning of every line.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Change the date to something really high that wouldn't happen over the course of a normal campaign. The date is the number of years from the start of the campaign that the event happens. So changing it to 1000, for example, would make gunpowder happen in the year 2080.

Now to change it for the Crusades campaign, go to Medieval 2 Total War/mods/crusades/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_events.txt and find the gunpowder event again.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Again, change the date to a really high number.

The above isn't the most elegant way to remove gunpowder from the game. But it's definitely the easiest way.

What do you mean "elegant way"?
And which number of those should I change? For example, on the second spoiler, there is two dates, "118" and "128", which one would it be?

**PapaRosario** · December 18, 2012, 10:55 AM

By not elegant, what I meant was that it doesn't actually remove gunpowder. What it does is simply push off gunpowder to a further date that you would never actually reach. Removing the gunpowder event completely would require more work. Pushing it off to a further date is the easiest solution.

Delete both numbers and replace it with a very high number. So, for example, if it says "118 128", you could replace it with "1000".

**Kaiser Nonsense** · December 18, 2012, 12:43 PM

Thank you! And I don't really care if it's deleted at all or just delayed to the the 21st century haha. As long as I don't see any smoke and barrels exploding during the Crusades, it is fine.

**totalwar_legend** · December 21, 2012, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Sir Brian de Bois-Guilbert

Thank you! And I don't really care if it's deleted at all or just delayed to the the 21st century haha. As long as I don't see any smoke and barrels exploding during the Crusades, it is fine.

sounds like cheating to me. Hypocrite

**Kaiser Nonsense** · December 21, 2012, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by totalwar_legend

sounds like cheating to me. Hypocrite

No, it's not cheating at all and you know that, I'm modifying my game to suit my tastes, it won't make it easier nor difficult, since not only the enemy loses gunpowder, so do I.

**totalwar_legend** · December 21, 2012, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Sir Brian de Bois-Guilbert

No, it's not cheating at all and you know that, I'm modifying my game to suit my tastes, it won't make it easier nor difficult, since not only the enemy loses gunpowder, so do I.

So its ok for you to defy the game as the makers intended you to play it, but its not ok to exploit the game they did intend for you to play. Sounds like you just make up rules to suit yourself.

Honestly, I don't care if you mod your game. Good luck with it, it's a lot of fun. But get off my case about rushing a non-modded game. Fair enough?

**Kaiser Nonsense** · December 22, 2012, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by totalwar_legend

So its ok for you to defy the game as the makers intended you to play it, but its not ok to exploit the game they did intend for you to play. Sounds like you just make up rules to suit yourself.

Honestly, I don't care if you mod your game. Good luck with it, it's a lot of fun. But get off my case about rushing a non-modded game. Fair enough?

I'm not complaining about you rushing your game, I'm complaining because you came here to insult us and brag about lies, yes lies. You can't conquer the world with Town Militia and Hobbilars, end of argument.

**Sitalkes** · December 18, 2012, 04:17 PM

The Arabs did use proto-gunpowder weapons during the crusades (hence the Naffatun). Their use by the crusaders is ahistorical but by removing them you are removing one of the most important reasons for the demise of the crusader states and the byzantine empire.

The Arabs acquired knowledge of gunpowder some time after 1240, but before 1280, by which time had written, in Arabic, recipes for gunpowder, instructions for the purification of saltpeter, and descriptions of gunpowder incendiaries.[6]
Ahmad Y. al-Hassan claims that the Battle of Ain Jalut in 1260 saw the Mamluks use against the Mongols in "the first cannon in history" gunpowder formulae which were almost identical with the ideal composition for explosive gunpowder, which he claims were not known in China or Europe until much later.[7][8] However, Iqtidar Alam Khan states that it was invading Mongols who introduced gunpowder to the Islamic world[9] and cites Mamluk antagonism towards early riflemen in their infantry as an example of how gunpowder weapons were not always met with open acceptance in the Middle East.[10]
Al-Hassan interprets Ibn Khaldun as reporting the use of cannon as siege machines by the Marinid sultan Abu Yaqub Yusuf at the siege of Sijilmasa in 1274.[7] Super-sized bombards were used by the troops of Mehmed II to capture Constantinople, in 1453. Urban, a Hungarian cannon engineer, is credited with the introduction of this cannon from Central Europe to the Ottoman realm.[11] It could fire heavy stone balls a mile, and the sound of their blast could reportedly be heard from a distance of 10 miles (16 km).[11] A piece of slightly later date (see pic) was cast in bronze and made in two parts: the chase and the breech, which, together, weighed 18.4 tonnes.[12] The two parts were screwed together using levers to facilitate the work.

**Gimnbo** · December 18, 2012, 05:28 PM

You know, not every thread here has to be a history argument. Dude just wants to play without gunpowder.

**Kaiser Nonsense** · December 19, 2012, 05:50 PM

O.O

I was certain I had commented on this thread.

Mate, I didn't know about that, but documentaries I've seen on gunpowder said it only reached the Holy Lands and Europe after the Ming Dynasty overthrown the mongols in China, so after Black Death period.

But I don't doubt what you are saying, I just got some new content to study on, however I still prefer to play Crusades based on the "First-Third Crusade" way of war.

Originally Posted by Gimnbo

You know, not every thread here has to be a history argument. Dude just wants to play without gunpowder.

That is no problem, I like the history arguments, and they have us improve our knowledge, for one I just learnt about gunpowder on Crusades, something that might be true, I'm not certain.

But thanks, on one you are right, regarding the gameplay I don't care if they had bloody rocket-launchers in the Crusades, I want to play it without. hahaha

**Col. Tartleton** · December 22, 2012, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by Sitalkes

The Arabs did use proto-gunpowder weapons during the crusades (hence the Naffatun). Their use by the crusaders is ahistorical but by removing them you are removing one of the most important reasons for the demise of the crusader states and the byzantine empire.

The Arabs acquired knowledge of gunpowder some time after 1240, but before 1280, by which time had written, in Arabic, recipes for gunpowder, instructions for the purification of saltpeter, and descriptions of gunpowder incendiaries.

Naffatun are throwing Molotov cocktails. It's a ceramic pot full of petroleum.

They're Arabs. They've been setting people on fire with rock oil (Petrus Oleum) for centuries. I'm pretty sure there are references to it in the Old Testament.

Nothing to do with gunpowder. It's not even Greek fire. It's just straight Naptha.

**Sitalkes** · December 22, 2012, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton

Naffatun are throwing Molotov cocktails. It's a ceramic pot full of petroleum.

They're Arabs. They've been setting people on fire with rock oil (Petrus Oleum) for centuries. I'm pretty sure there are references to it in the Old Testament.

Nothing to do with gunpowder. It's not even Greek fire. It's just straight Naptha.

"The incendiary materials used included (a) liquid petroleum, which was available in Iran, Iraq, and the shores of the Caspian Sea; (b)liquid pitch (c) mixtures of pitch, resin, and sulphur; (d) mixtures of quickline and sulphur, which ignited on contact with water; and (e) mixtures of quicklime and sulphur with other flammable materials such as bitumen, resin, naft etc that also ignited on contact with water." Islamic Technology p 108. it is believed that the knowledge of distillation and of salpetre enabled the Arabs to use distilled fractions of petroleum and/or salpetre to make their incendiary weapons more effective.

Salpetre had been used since at least the 10th or 11th centuries AD and Gunpowder was used in the incendiary mixtures used in the naft pots. Some historians say that such weapons were the deciding factor at the Battle of al-Mansura (AD 1249). The fire was discharged from a large ballista in 'pots of Iraq" but could also be fired from trebuchets. During the siege of Acre, it was said that "the Sultan's trebuchets and catapults flung their pottery containers filled with an explosive mixture at the walls of the city or over them into the town." Islamic Technology- An Illustrated History Ahmad Y. al-Hassan and Donald R. Hill, Cambridge University Press, 1992, pp109 - 112

**Sitalkes** · December 20, 2012, 04:28 PM

The Crusader states were unable to continue in existence not just because they faced a united muslim state and lost the battle of Hattin/couldn't garrison castles but because of developments in siege weapons/techniques that meant that castles that formerly held out for months or years could be taken in weeks. These weapons and techniques included counter weight trebuchets, proto-gunpowder weapons (similar to Greek Fire pots, could be fired by said trebuchets), and mining. Cannons merely put the nail in the coffin. If you have access to Slingshot, read Changes in Crusader Warfare 1097-1291 – Slingshot 253 pp 2-7