A Moral Scenario

[Sir Winston Churchill]

You are an artilleryman/drone controller in the military, and your commanding officer orders to you fire on a group of people. However when you survey them, they look like nothing more than civilians in a village. You can't make out the targets any more due to the limits of infrared vision, and despite your inquiries into the legitimacy of the target, your CO insists you open fire.

What do you do? Do you follow orders and open fire on the targets? Or do you refuse? Please have in-depth descriptions with your answers as to why you make your choice.

[The Juggernaut]

You take the shot, unless there's some huge reason to doubt your commander. You can question his judgement at a later time, but since you can't make ANY sort of ID at the time, you should follow orders. While your target could just be civilians and your commander has gone crazy, they could more likely be high value targets not carrying visible weapons. You might ask for confirmation, relay some sort of doubt, but if the order comes down you take the shot. Usually the guys higher up have more information than the guy pulling the trigger, just a fact of life.

[Sar1n]

That's the point of chain of command. The guy above you knows something you do not. In combat, there is no time to explain.

But IIRC attacking an unidentified target is against NATO rules of engagement, and in that case CO is giving you illegal order, so you should stand down.

[Ó Cathasaigh]

That's the point of chain of command. The guy above you knows something you do not. In combat, there is no time to explain.

But IIRC attacking an unidentified target is against NATO rules of engagement, and in that case CO is giving you illegal order, so you should stand down.

Yup.

If you feel an order is illegal you can refuse and you'll most likely have your time in court to articulate your reasoning.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

If they are indeed a legitimate target your CO will tell you why, even if its as little as "it's a guy and his associates we've been after for years, but his identity is secret".

[Vanoi]

Not a real moral scenario since soldiers are allowed to disobey orders if they feel the orders are wrong. Like killing civilians.

[SuperTechmarine]

Did you just pull this out of Spec Ops: the Line?

Anyway, i refuse orders and wont fire.

[hellheaven1987]

Blah, if the target is so important information would generally give to the one who pull the trigger.

[Himster]

"I was just following orders" is not an excuse for murder. In the good old days we would hang such soldiers.
But it's still not an easy position to be in.

[Engie]

If I had any doubt about my commanders orders I would refuse to do it, because if I found that I had killed some innocent civilians I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

So what if by refusing to fire you ended up missing the chance at a high-profile target who went to cause serious damage against your forces?

Like, when do we draw that line between ROE and trust in our superiors?

[SuperTechmarine]

So what if by refusing to fire you ended up missing the chance at a high-profile target who went to cause serious damage against your forces?

Like, when do we draw that line between ROE and trust in our superiors?

Did you play Spec Ops: the Line? That game questions moral ambiguities as well, and you are too, now that i think about it, maybe that high-profile target could have killed millions if i had left him live, dozens will die so that a million can live.

"In war, there is no good or bad, there's only bad or worse, there's a moral line you have to cross, you can only choose to what degree you will cross it, if at all."

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Did you play Spec Ops: the Line? That game questions moral ambiguities as well, and you are too, now that i think about it, maybe that high-profile target could have killed millions if i had left him live, dozens will die so that a million can live.

"In war, there is no good or bad, there's only bad or worse, there's a moral line you have to cross, you can only choose to what degree you will cross it, if at all."

No, I didn't play Spec Ops (but maybe I will now). I actually thought of this question while driving home one day.

[Ratzor]

It has been scientifically proven that most people will do what a higher authority tells them too, even if they think it is morally wrong. I won't answer however I would do it or not though, as these situations seems to be driven by circumstance rather than rational thinking.

[Major Hemorrhoid's Brother]

I fire and kill them for the lulz

[Col. Tartleton]

Doubled

[Col. Tartleton]

Unless I'm actually able to determine they aren't combatants I'm taking the shot and shifting the blame.

Collateral damage is half the battle. Mistakes happen. If people hesitated every time they had to pull the trigger you'd lose the war.

It's not like he's asking me to fire on a friendly position or on a known commodity of civilians. Obviously that's not kosher.

If I was in an aircraft I wouldn't see the people and I'd just drop the bombs.

It's a howitzer, not a sniper rifle. I don't decide who lives and who dies, that's up to the shrapnel pattern.

[I WUB PUGS]

HVT or any T need not be armed to be a T. You're just a trigger puller, but you have the right to inquire or disobey. The OP doesn't seem like one of those times, your knowledge is limited. You don't know what your CO does and he doesn't need to tell you everything.

Even if it came out that I killed a bunch of civies, it wouldn't be on me. I didn't make the call, and I could live with myself because I would know I didn't have sufficient information to justify disobeying the order. I have to trust my commander to know wtf he is doing and make the right call, just like he has to trust me to do what I'm told.

This isn't that hard to answer. A better scenario would be a clearly identified HVT hiding out in a Children's Hospital.

[Psychonaut]

I wouldn't be in that situation in the first place Even if they were enemy combatants, I wouldn't fire. that.

[clone]

I wouldn't be in that situation in the first place Even if they were enemy combatants, I wouldn't fire. that.

prepare to die then