composite bows and longbows

[CrazyShadowDami]

in real life, composite (recurved) bows have far greater range and AP capability than longbows. why is it different in the game?

[Bryce Caron]

Because of balance perhaps? Who knows. But are you sure about the length aspect? I know they were the better choice for armored foes being they packed more of a punch.

[Aeratus]

Because this game isn't real life.


Also, you're incorrect regarding the comparison between composite bows and longbows. Not all composite bows have a greater range than longbows. Composite bows spanned a time period of 2 thousand years and were used from Japan all the way to Europe. There was no uniformity in composite bows. While there were composite bows that had a draw strength of longbows, not all of them were such.

Also, range is based on the arrow type. The English bodkin arrow was relatively large and heavy, which shortened its range but gave it good stopping power to knock down cavalry when shot en mass.

[CrazyShadowDami]

higher kinetic energy mean better range and damage. its proportial.

and yes, ALL composite bows had better range than longbows. its simply the way they work.

[Aeratus]

The heavier the arrow, the less distance it will shoot. This is because of gravity.

[CrazyShadowDami]

The heavier the arrow, the less distance it will shoot. This is because of gravity.

and a better designed bow will shoot the arow better. carefully long-term made bow vs a stick and a string.

[Yayattasa]

The heavier the arrow, the less distance it will shoot. This is because of gravity.

this has nothing to do with gravity at all.
The downward acceleration is almost constant at 9.31 m/s²

[Aeratus]

There were mounted longbowmen, but they were only dragoon-style infantry. That is, they used the horse to position themselves around the battle, but they dismounted to fire the bows.

There were no longbowmen who shot from horses. To be clear, there are some mentions of people using longbows on horses in occasional situations, but this was never done as a widespread battle tactic.

[Bryce Caron]

I'm fairly certain shooting the same type of arrow the longbow would win on the distance aspect. Shorter composite bows don't equal a longbow. Me thinks.

[Aeratus]

The longbows as used had a short range because they used heavy arrows. I think that part is self explanatory. Even in composite bow cultures, like the Mongols, different arrow weights were used for different purposes. Heavier arrows were used for horse archer skirmishing at close range, while lighter arrows were for long range.

The composite bow had a much more efficient design than the longbow in terms of size to power. However, this mainly matters for horse archers, where design is very important. With infantry archers standing still, the design doesn't matter too much.

As I mentioned, there was a great variety of composite bow designs. The Scythians were known to have small composite bows, while the Mongols were known to have larger ones. The biggest composite bows probably had more draw strength than longbows, but I don't think the commonly used ones had a higher draw strength than the longbows.

[CrazyShadowDami]

me knows that composite bow fires at higher velocity. ITS SIMPLY THE WAY IT WORKS. imagine drawing one. what do you think, why is it shaped like that?

[Aetees]

For a start plenty is to do with the archer as well as the bow, a composite bow can be made to have a pull equal or greater than that of a long bow but you do still need to be able to pull it. Mongol warriors raised as nomadic raiders and holding a bow straight of the teat would not have any problem with this, militia units and even professional soldiers who came to it later in life would not be able to take the kind of massive draws that longbows are famed for. Of course this also applies to longbows which is why they were only fielded effectively for a relatively short time. Then there is the issue of bow quality on an individual level. A long bow requires skill to make but is quite simple in design and can be made in large numbers more easily. Composite bows are incredibly difficult to make, each one requires expert construction and several months from start to finish (mostly for the glue to dry but the construction still takes about a week). My point is that not every composite bow will have been as good as it is possible for such bows to be.

Finnaly (and I think most importantly) the longbow has near legendary status in the west due to the victories at (amongst others) Crecy and Agincourt. The game is as much about taking into considerations what people think the past was like as much as reflecting true history. For example cavalry spears were never held under arm by Romans and yet that is the only way they hold them in RTW.

[Aeratus]

Finnaly (and I think most importantly) the longbow has near legendary status in the west due to the victories at (amongst others) Crecy and Agincourt. The game is as much about taking into considerations what people think the past was like as much as reflecting true history. For example cavalry spears were never held under arm by Romans and yet that is the only way they hold them in RTW.

That's true. That's also why the British in Age of Empires III have longbowmen instead of riflemen as the light infantry unit.

[Bryce Caron]

Sounds like OP knew the answer before he made the thread. But I still stand by both bows having specific uses/battles that it can shine or fail in.

[FountainGuard]

ALL composite bows are stronger than ALL longbows. Im no expert but, Im pretty sure this is not true. Why do you think the English used the longbow opposed to a normal length bow? Because it was BETTER, they could shoot farther and the length of the staves made it easier to pull back heavy draw weights without snapping. Therefore, more powerful.

[CrazyShadowDami]

1. i was asking why are composite bows not stronger in-game

2. the reason why english didnt use composite bows was becouse they didnt know it exsisted. it was far more popular in easter countries.

3. the way comp. bow works is that its body goes backwards when drawn far more than longbow, becouse of its shape. which means that the arrow must be quite long, but the ending result is the arrow being powered by a much large elastic force, thus resulting in a greater kinetic energy, which ends up with larger range and armor penetration. physics.

[Aeratus]

i was asking why are composite bows not stronger in-game

I'm also wondering why characters age only 1 year when 2 years pass in game. When 2 years pass, you should age 2 years. Physics.

[Kaiser Nonsense]

No, are you insane mate, longbows are far better than composite ones, because of their size they could have greater length range and strength of damage. The major proof of that is, why is the english longbow so claimed to be great, while composite bows existed in every country of the world, for THOUSANDS of years, including ancient Egypt, ancient Greece and Roman Empire, meanwhile the longbow were created far later, when they could study better the bow and develop something far more useful.

[CrazyShadowDami]

No, are you insane mate, longbows are far better than composite ones, because of their size they could have greater length range and strength of damage. The major proof of that is, why is the english longbow so claimed to be great, while composite bows existed in every country of the world, for THOUSANDS of years, including ancient Egypt, ancient Greece and Roman Empire, meanwhile the longbow were created far later, when they could study better the bow and develop something far more useful.

facepalm

what does early england have against super advanced civilisations of rome, egypt and greece? now, i have phisically explained you how composite bows shoot at higher velocity in my previus post, now you do the same for me, for longbows. longbow was made by a nation that was still half-barbaric. they didnt even know composite bows exsisted. "study the bow", what to study on the longbow? its a stick and a string. composite bow is far more complicated, and the secret lies in it shape. you clearly know nothing about the topic, and early medieval history.

[Sar1n]

facepalm

what does early england have against super advanced civilisations of rome, egypt and greece? now, i have phisically explained you how composite bows shoot at higher velocity in my previus post, now you do the same for me, for longbows. longbow was made by a nation that was still half-barbaric. they didnt even know composite bows exsisted. "study the bow", what to study on the longbow? its a stick and a string. composite bow is far more complicated, and the secret lies in it shape. you clearly know nothing about the topic, and early medieval history.

Actually, it's you who knows nothing. England was far from "barbaric country". Normans, who conquered England before the rise of longbow in the Wales, had holdings spanning from England, northern France to Sicily and were significant force in creating the Crusader States. They were actually among most civilized europeans, and had long contact with various muslim civilisations, even used muslim archers among their ranks for some time. THey knew about the composite bow for sure.

Composite bow got several disadvantages, especially the ancient and medieval types, stemming from the materials used. They didn't have waterproof glues and they are sensitive to temperature changes, making their use in the west europe problematic. Materials also limited the height of bow, so longbows could replace the increased power of composite materials with size. The biggest advantage of composite bows is they can get good power from smaller size, making them suitable for horse archery.