Orc faction cavalry?

[Dunadd]

Gundabad has no cavalry? If you read The Hobbit or Tolkein's other books there are dozens of references to warg riders from Gundabad and the Misty Mountains

And Mordor "lacks cavalry"? In the Lord of the Rings there are "warg riders out of Gorgoroth" coming from Mordor along with Variag cavalry from Khand and many others.

Claiming this mod is based on the film and the book is obviously a complete joke. It's based solely on the films and Games Workshop figures and no-one involved can have even read the books even once.

[Fedual]

Im gonna tell you the same thing you are telling us, read the book, there is no reference of warg riders, but there are wolf riders (SPOLER INCOMING)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

and that is exactly what you see in The Hobbit movie, wolf riders lead by Azog, (Azog himself is imaginative since he died much earlier according to correct lore but he did originate from gunadbad), Not warg riders.

/Case closed


Regards, Fedual

[Dunadd]

and the difference between wolf riders and warg riders in The Hobbit is none, none whatsoever - just as Tolkien mentioned hogboblins, orcs and goblins in The Hobbit - and all were just varieties of orcs, bigger or smaller ones.

The terminology Tolkein uses in The Hobbit is not the same terminology he uses in the Lord of the Rings.

they do have cavalry. numarerion cav.

so based on this Games Workshop boxed set, not the book - and none of the "warg riders out of Gorgoroth" or Variags of Khand mentioned in the book.

How about coming clean and admitting the mod is based solely on the films and Games Workshop figures and has nothing to do with the book at all?

[Fedual]

okey im sitting here with the hobbit and lord of the rings now and i guess you are right and the books are wrong, wargs and wolves are the same in your head.

As a side note when you post three consecutive questions or statements after eachother you do not have to create completley new threads for each and everyone of them, you can use one thread instead


/Fedual

[Pyres Δt Varanasi]

Im gonna tell you the same thing you are telling us, read the book, there is no reference of warg riders, but there are wolf riders (SPOLER INCOMING)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

and that is exactly what you see in The Hobbit movie, wolf riders lead by Azog, (Azog himself is imaginative since he died much earlier according to correct lore but he did originate from gunadbad), Not warg riders.

/Case closed


Regards, Fedual

I'm With You On This One

[Elven Warrior]

they do have cavalry. numarerion cav.

[Fedual]

And Mordor "lacks cavalry"? In the Lord of the Rings there are "warg riders out of Gorgoroth" coming from Mordor along with Variag cavalry from Khand and many others.

Claiming this mod is based on the film and the book is obviously a complete joke. It's based solely on the films and Games Workshop figures and no-one involved can have even read the books even once.

Sauron called upon Rhun and Harad, and they had cavalry that came to fight for the dark lord, in TATW Rhun and Harad are separate evil factions but they still (in theory) should be fighting for the dark lord sauron, so take that into concideration please, also there are cavalry in the form of black numenorians for mordor in case rhun and harad arent helping you beat mean Gondor

the only thing i cant answer for is the warg riders, i think that is a matter of balancing the gameplay


Regards, Fedual


P.S you obvoisly dont like this mod so i might aswell tell you now these things will probably not change so i think you should stop playing TATW and do something else. OR, change it yourself

[Elven Warrior]

in the books it was not wargs who rohan fought but harad. mordor out sourced for their cav

there is a difference. first there are three different kinds of the wolf kind. the werewolves which walked on two legs and talked. wargs who walked on all fours but still talked. wolves well were wolves.

[Elven Warrior]

why dont you add the units into the faction rosters. its what i did for the slivan axemen. i put them into the high elf roster. btw the oomm do have warg riders.

for balance mordor does not habe warg. they are an infantry based faction]
+

[StealthFox]

Threads merged and cleaned.

This can be a legitimate topic for discussion so everyone play nicely now or I'll have to knock some heads.

[Elven Warrior]

here use this and the orc factions can have all the wargs you want

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=346427

[Mhaedros]

If OP had actually played the mod, he'd know that, while units and UI is based on the movies, there is A LOT of stuff from the books in form of scripts and even units...

[Hermes Trismegistos]

I don't really know why everyone tries to explain to the original poster why

a) Gundabad has no warg riders
b) Mordor has no warg riders though they are in the books

when

a) Gundabad has warg riders. It's as simple as that. The only orc faction that has no wargs is mordor.
b) Mordor wargs are not in the book. If there is a passage I'm forgetting please give it to me, but you really have to tell me where your quote about "warg riders from gorgoroth" is coming from, because it's surely not from LOTR. The same goes for variag riders by the way, now they are in the mod and a pretty common interpretation, but Tolkien never says anything about them being riders or what they are exactly (the thing that comes closest to Mordor wargs are the wolf-riders hunting Thrain in the appendix, as he ends up in Dol Guldur they might be loyal to the necromancer).
Now I would agree that it would nevertheless not be not too far-fetched to give wargs to Mordor, that's surely done as it is to crate some gameplay differences between the orcish factions.

EDIT: And lacks cavalry means they have few choice in cavalry, not that they have none.

[The dead one]

If you like a more book based lotr game I'd recommend The Last Days for M&B if you havn't tried it. It is a mod for M&B obviously It is a mix of the movie and the book where the book dominate much more, and I think it is pretty good

[Lothar135]

Gundabad has no cavalry?

Have you played Gundabad? I have. And I used Wargs during the campaign...

[Dunadd]

Elven Warrior - thanks very much - i'll do that. Knew how to do it for Rome Total war mods but wasn't sure how for Med II ones

On Gunadabad and OOMM having warg riders - thanks everyone for the corrections - i'd only seen the faction choice screens for the campaigns and then looked at starting units in settlements

Dead One - I've played The Last Days. Liked it, until the latest version when they made even basic items cost a squillion resource points. It's Total War mods i'm looking for though. There used to be Middle Earth Total War which was based on the book and had a really good atmosphere but it seems to have died about 4 years ago unfinished - pity.

Third Age Total War is pretty nice and i shouldn't have criticised any of it without first saying i really like it in a lot of ways - was playing as Dale and quite a good atmosphere ad challenging.

I would like it if someone made a TATW sub-mod that was more based on the book than the films / GW figures and had less photos based on actors as portaits and more artwork portraits, but since i don't have the time or skills for modding i can't complain too much about the lack of one.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

I would like it if someone made a TATW sub-mod that was more based on the book than the films / GW figures and had less photos based on actors as portaits and more artwork portraits, but since i don't have the time or skills for modding i can't complain too much about the lack of one.

So what you are saying is that you dont like the movies or gw, and you think some one should make a new mod with their own fantasy, becouse the movies is more or less true to the books, and I can only say that the mod is even more loyal.

[Dunadd]

VarrKhaitann wrote

So what you are saying is that you dont like the movies or gw, and you think some one should make a new mod with their own fantasy, becouse the movies is more or less true to the books, and I can only say that the mod is even more loyal.

No, a sub-mod, which would be basically the same mod but with different portraits (not photoshopped photos or pictures of actors from the film but artwork) and graphics and loading screens. A separate mod would be nice too, but it would seem daft to do that when a lot of TATW is right already and there are only a few things that'd need changed for a more book-like atmosphere and sticking closer to the books than the film.

I like a fair amount of this mod and i like a fair amount of the films (where they stick to the books) - just no so keen on the film versions of elves, orcs, trolls and warg riders etc.

The movies are true to the books in some ways, but far wrong in others.

e.g in the charge of the Rohirrim in the book Theoden and the Rohirrim go on to take the black serpent standard of the Haradrim cavalry/nobles before the Witch King kills his horse - and the Mumakil are not the main fighting force of the Haradrim at the battle of the Pelennor Fields, just one part of their force of cavalry and infantry.

In the book wargs are huge wolves or dire wolves, not giant hyenas. (he uses warg differently at different points - "true" wargs are intelligent werewolves, others seem to just be giant wolves)

In the book Uruk-Hai are half-orcs, a cross breed between humans and orcs, not mined from ridiculous underground clay eggs the way they are in the film.

There are absolutely no crossbows in the books (even dwarves use bows where they use missile weapons at all - e.g Battle of the Five Armies in The Hobbit) and absolutely no plate armour in them - there are both in the film. This mod doesn't include the ful plate armour but does include the crossbows (even on some Rhun units) and has lots of pieces of plate armour (e.g plate cuirasses on Dale bodyguards), when the books only ever mention chainmail, conical helms and roundshields - only possible reference to plate in any of the books is the dwarves fighting Glaurung in (i think) The Silmarillion. Orcs have horned helms, not the film's strange Uruk Hai ones.

In the book there are no stair cases collapsing in Moria, because those are ridiculous and added tension is not required for a scene in which the fellowship are being chased by orcs and a demon through an abandoned underground city.

The Hobbit looks like it will depart much further from the book in a lot of it. Thorin looks like a Dual Wielding Klingon rather than a dwarf, with the rest of the dwarves looking like a strange mixture of male models and freaks - and the goblins in goblin town are all naked freaks, with the Great Goblin a huge obese naked guy and lots of running about on Indiana Jones style rickety rope bridges - none of which is in the book and absolutely none of which is an improvement on it.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

In the book Uruk-Hai are half-orcs, a cross breed between humans and orcs.

Its a bit of matter of debated

but there is half-orcs, Tolkien just really never stats what the other part is.

[Dunadd]

Since he also calls them "orc-men" it's pretty obvious they're meant to be half human, though i agree he never specifically says how they're created, so its possible there are magical means involved