Should ethnicity be included?

**Der Phönix** · December 12, 2012, 02:54 PM

Ethnicity in the sense of a cultural demarcation that persists under foreign authority, till it is successfully assimilated. Ethnicity always played a major in the context of assmiliation, citizenship, mercenercies, auxiliaries and uprisings. Thoughts?

From iron age Italy. However, some of these ethnic demarcations persisted at least until the Socii war.

**~~PlPs~~** · December 12, 2012, 03:13 PM

nice maps +rep

**nikosgr** · December 12, 2012, 03:45 PM

For an Athenian, to force him to live under tyranny, would lead to rebellion. For a Jew, to not respect his god would lead to rebellion. Should I be bothered in game with all these details? Would it be annoiyng windows to pop up telling me: "Your local governor in Athens, just ignored the local politicians and they planned a rebellion. What do you whant to do about this situation? a:Fire your local governor (gain time) b:Terrorize population (economic penalty) c:Give partial Independence (Economic gain, risk of loosing control)"

**Halie Satanus** · December 12, 2012, 03:28 PM

How would ethnicity effect a faction in ways that are not already covered by culture/religious bonuses/negatives? The main factors should be issues that concern WAR! building your economy, being graced by the gods, recruiting, supply lines ect ect..

**Marvzilla** · December 12, 2012, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Halie Satanus

How would ethnicity effect a faction in ways that are not already covered by culture/religious bonuses/negatives? The main factors should be issues that concern WAR! building your economy, being graced by the gods, recruiting, supply lines ect ect..

Affinity as commander for Infantry/Cavalry,affinity for trade etc.

EB had quite the nice concept.

**|Sith|Galvanized Iron** · December 12, 2012, 03:34 PM

Well in this time period culture pretty much was the same thing as ethnicity except for places that were Romanized, though in the Eastern Diadochi states I suppose ethnicity might be more than just culture since Greeks formed an elite above Hellenized locals and it was also the Greeks who fought in the armies...

**Dan113112** · December 12, 2012, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by |Sith|Galvanized Iron

Well in this time period culture pretty much was the same thing as ethnicity except for places that were Romanized, though in the Eastern Diadochi states I suppose ethnicity might be more than just culture since Greeks formed an elite above Hellenized locals and it was also the Greeks who fought in the armies...

True. For the most part the Greek colonies in Hellenistic countries made up the core of the army. But after many years and countless wars they're numbers started to decline. So the Hellenisitc countries started recruiting natives and training/equiping them in the Macedonian style.

**Anna_Gein** · December 12, 2012, 03:52 PM

However culture or ethnicity appear in the game make it stand for a long long long long ... long time after conquest. It is stupid to see a settlement been assimilated in M2 Kingdoms Brittania after what ? 20 turns.

How would that affect the gameplay ? I suppose by civil order and possible uprising. In fact I don't think it should cause that much civil order if the governor is open to the native culture as he is respectful but should he be extremely hostile to it things would not goe well. Different culture might be more likely to revolt if the governor is extremely corrupted too or if he has extremely negative trait to public order. Finally dilemma based on cultural/ethnical difference could be very interesting. Especially if governor deal with it on a regional scale while you as the faction ruler would have dilemma based on states scale.

**|Sith|Galvanized Iron** · December 12, 2012, 04:05 PM

Yeah it should be almost impossible to change culture of a province unless colonizing it with citizens of your own culture.

Originally Posted by nikosgr

For an Athenian, to force him to live under tyranny, would lead to rebellion. For a Jew, to not respect his god would lead to rebellion. Should I be bothered in game with all these details? Would it be annoiyng windows to pop up telling me: "Your local governor in Athens, just ignored the local politicians and they planned a rebellion. What do you whant to do about this situation? a:Fire your local governor (gain time) b:Terrorize population (economic penalty) c:Give partial Independence (Economic gain, risk of loosing control)"

Well at least there should be a script that if the controler of Jerusalem razes the Jewish Temple and build a Pagan temple instead, then he will get a big revolt instantly (as happened to Antiochus IV). Would be a good way to punish historically ignorant players who just thinks they can powergame haha.

**Stavroforos** · December 14, 2012, 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by |Sith|Galvanized Iron

Yeah it should be almost impossible to change culture of a province unless colonizing it with citizens of your own culture.

Well at least there should be a script that if the controler of Jerusalem razes the Jewish Temple and build a Pagan temple instead, then he will get a big revolt instantly (as happened to Antiochus IV). Would be a good way to punish historically ignorant players who just thinks they can powergame haha.

I plan on razing the Jewish Temple because I know the history.

**Moros** · December 14, 2012, 12:21 PM

Romanization and other -izations have been exaggerated by historians in the past. Currently classical regional identity is a hot topic in the academic world and has noted this exaggeration. Of course that doesn't mean there was no such thing and that it wasn't important and could be of use. But it then should be noted for it's regional aspect.

**~~PlPs~~** · December 12, 2012, 04:29 PM

I didnt know Gaul language spread to much. too close to my hometown.

**AzureNight** · December 12, 2012, 06:33 PM

CA don`t put these kinds of details into their products.

**Dan113112** · December 12, 2012, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by AzureNight

CA don`t put these kinds of details into their products.

Have you played ETW or NTW? They have brown or black skin for the units depending on where they are from. That's a good little detail.

**Ngazi** · December 13, 2012, 02:38 PM

Don't forget some provinces have an inherent, permanent base unrest for any owner other than the very first faction.

**~~weirdoascensor~~** · December 14, 2012, 03:12 AM

Yes It Should.
The Logical conclusion to this is: CA need to add Migration and Acculturation Mechanics.

**Pinarius** · December 14, 2012, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by Der Phönix

Ethnicity in the sense of a cultural demarcation that persists under foreign authority, till it is successfully assimilated. Ethnicity always played a major in the context of assmiliation, citizenship, mercenercies, auxiliaries and uprisings. Thoughts?

The people of Noricum were celtic, too, I'd say.

**Manuel I Komnenos** · December 14, 2012, 06:23 PM

The second map is wrong though, as it displays the Macedonian group far north. The -let's call it- ethnogenesis of the Macedonian Doric tribe occurred in Pieria and near Mount Olympus. As for ethnicity being included, I think it sure should.

**lazerBAR** · December 14, 2012, 06:46 PM

Ethnicities and cultures should be included so that it might affect the gameplay more on the campaing map. They should Make catagories for cultures like Celtic,Germanic,Iberian,Indo-Iranian, etc.. But I would like it to be realistic, Hispania shouldn't be completely roman after 20 turns as said by Ann, the world wasn't egalitarian back then... Realistic migrations aswell.