'Halal Homes' sparks outrage in the Dutch Right Wing

[Armenum]

So it seems Wilders is at it again. This time the notion of 'halal homes' has him and his supporters in arms. I don't really understand thought the fierce opposition to the concept (read more in the article). You have immigrants in your country (like it or not) why is it so bad to cater to their desires, given it's not harming the public good? The apartments look perfectly normal from the outside, they just have some extra features in the apartments. Has Wilders gone too far? or is this his normal stunt for the elections?

and in case you don't know who Wilders is, well here's a photo of him:

Netherlands 'halal homes' ignite religious row
By Anna Holligan

BBC News, The Netherlands

Renovations in Amsterdam apartments - nicknamed "halal homes" in the press - have sparked a political row in the Netherlands.

About 180 apartments in Amsterdam have been given special makeovers which suit the wishes of Muslim residents. Features include individual taps that can be used for ritual cleansing before prayers and sliding doors to keep men and women apart.

Some right-wing politicians have been stirring up public opposition, warning that anyone asking for such modifications should "leave for Mecca".

From the outside, the apartments look no different from other social housing blocks in the residential area of Bos and Lommer, in the less opulent western reaches of the capital.

Aynur Yildrim gives a tour of her home with the enthusiasm of an inspired estate agent. In the bathroom she bends to reveal the lowered water point - a modification that, in some variation, might equally exist in non-religious homes. But it is the perceived religious aspect of these changes that has made them so controversial.

And it is in the tidy kitchen that the distinction is most striking, as Ms Yildrim shows off the sliding doors.
"I wanted a closed kitchen, in order to be able to close the kitchen off now and then for a bit more privacy. Sometimes we like to be separated, the women on one side and the men on the other."

Wim de Waard of the housing association Eigen Haard insisted that the changes were "absolutely not religiously inspired - they are just practical adaptations". The adaptations followed consultations with local residents, including Muslim groups.

Mr de Waard stressed that apartments were not reserved for Muslims - homes were assigned on the basis of rank on the waiting list, size of household and income.

Wilders outraged
For many Dutch people, living in a historically tolerant and liberal country, the idea of separating men and women has led to some criticism that these buildings are effectively condoning some kind of gender inequality.

The controversial anti-Islam politician Geert Wilders accused the Dutch authorities of subsidising a "medieval gender apartheid".

He has publicly prophesied about an impending "ghettoisation" of Dutch neighbourhoods - not unusually strong words from a man who once appeared in court for his strident rhetoric. Mr Wilders was cleared of inciting religious hatred two years ago.

After a poor performance in recent parliamentary elections, Mr Wilders may be angling to woo immigration-conscious right-wing voters again with his strong, headline-grabbing statements. Recent opinion polls suggest that if there were to be an election tomorrow, his Freedom Party (PVV) would win.
A Dutch property developer and PVV supporter said he was "shocked" by the "halal homes" concept.
"It's a ridiculous idea, I thought it was a joke," he complained.

"It turns into reality. The rules of the Koran are discrimination, it is stimulating discrimination. It's taking us back to medieval times."

"These immigrants are from lower social classes, they're not educated, they're bringing those values to our Dutch society - the opposite should happen, they should adapt to our modern and free values.

We should teach them to integrate. This is backwards. What if it were on buses? If we were to separate men and women on buses it would be like discrimination again, here in the Netherlands. It's crazy. I can't believe it. It frightens me."

Using tax revenue
But many residents in the area seem to accept that what their neighbours do in the privacy of their own homes is entirely up to them.

Tess Duijghuisen lives in the same block and said: "A lot of new people arrived here lately, a lot of young people like me, so trust me, there's no problem of ghettoisation.

"And there are a lot of exchanges between people from all nationalities, which makes life much nicer here."
On internet forums, some users have made light of the renovations, with comments such as, "I believe in the power of disco, please can I have a disco ball built into my apartment?"

When I asked Dutch followers on Twitter why the opposition, they told me "it's wrong that inequality should be subsidised by tax money" and that another country's traditions "may be offensive to others".

It is a debate over the public versus private spaces. When the public purse is used to part-fund modifications, which many see as the religious antithesis of traditional Dutch society, conflict emerges.
Public funding is actually in the form of a guarantee, the housing association says. Yet it is still perceived as a subsidy.

The housing association says the complex is completely mixed, that the homes have been renovated to improve their "rentability" and that it is just trying to keep everyone happy. Many would argue that that is a tough ambition to fulfil - whether in religion, politics or our private lives.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-euro...558?print=true

[Prosaic Visitant]

Perhaps it's just me, but segregating the genders in the name of faith makes me feel uncomfortable. But hey, if that's what people want, who am I to stand in their way?

This appears like the usual ballooning of a relatively minor issue into something more. Stories like this fade from importance just as swiftly as they appear.

[The Dude]

Perhaps it's just me, but segregating the genders in the name of faith makes me feel uncomfortable. But hey, if that's what people want, who am I to stand in their way?

A responsible human being. This sort of medieval savagery should not be enabled by anyone. Maybe the great Sky Wizard is no longer as holy in our cultures as he once was, but belief in him apparently is.

[removeduser_487563287433]

In England, it is said, our homes are our castles.

[mrmouth]

In England, it is said, our homes are our castles.

But do you have a law?

[justicar5]

But do you have a law?

that is pretty much where the current government wants to send self defence. (Tho whether the clarification is needed is much debated)

[frozenprince]

And indeed, this is nothing to write home about.

[Diglytron]

and in case you don't know who Wilders is, well here's a photo of him:

Geert Wilders

Like this

On topic:

So it seems Wilders is at it again. This time the notion of 'halal homes' has him and his supporters in arms. I don't really understand thought the fierce opposition to the concept (read more in the article). You have immigrants in your country (like it or not) why is it so bad to cater to their desires, given it's not harming the public good?

Hmm.. I also don't understand Wilders opinion about this, but I never did. If the houses look normal on the outside its fine for most of us, Dutch people. And if the edits in the apartments don't cause nuisance for non-muslims its ok.

Has Wilders gone too far? or is this his normal stunt for the elections?

Not sure what you mean? There are no upcoming elections or, at least, not yet the cabinet has still four years to go lol. And its quite normal for Wilders to do this. He called the kerchief muslim women wear always a towel so this is quite so-so for him...

The apartments look perfectly normal from the outside, they just have some extra features in the apartments.

Really

lol

[frozenprince]

that. I'll take one of those. They look like relatively normal, higher middle end apartments to me.

[Armenum]

Geert Wilders

Like this

Very true

On topic:

Hmm.. I also don't understand Wilders opinion about this, but I never did. If the houses look normal on the outside its fine for most of us, Dutch people. And if the edits in the apartments don't cause nuisance for non-muslims its ok.

Yeah but he is intent on making ever little issue regarding Muslims a big deal to score political points. If Muslims decide to build a nice park, he will probably make a point out of that too.

Not sure what you mean? There are no upcoming elections or, at least, not yet the cabinet has still four years to go lol. And its quite normal for Wilders to do this. He called the kerchief muslim women wear always a towel so this is quite so-so for him...

Well not yet, but it's never too late to score political points...

Really

lol

[/QUOTE]

Look normal to me. Look much better than the Soviet apartments widespread all over former USSR.

[Kraut]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I was not aware that the primary task of a sliding door (or any door, for the matter) is to "keep men and women separated".
I have several doors inside my non-halal, all-german, conservative-bavarian house, one of them even a sliding door, and I rarely use (abuse?) them to separate genders. The most time, my wife and me share the same side of any door... but we like to use them to keep the kids outside the room when we are doing haram things.

IMO there are two possible explanations:
a) I am a salafist and never knew
b) doors are not gender-separating evil in the first place, but might be used this way by evil gender-separating people

[Hazelnut]

Not sure how Dutch social housing works, but it is presumably tax payer paid.

Working on that idea, if I was a Dutch taxpayer I would be annoyed. Due to the fact that my money is used to fund private religious items, it's not the governments place.

If government money is not used then I would have no problem with the changes, but for my point of view it’s the governments responsibility to provide liveable housing, and not to get involved in religious matters.

[Armenum]

Not sure how Dutch social housing works, but it is presumably tax payer paid.

Working on that idea, if I was a Dutch taxpayer I would be annoyed. Due to the fact that my money is used to fund private religious items, its not the governments place.

If government money is not used then I would have no problem with the changes, but for my point of view it’s the governments responsibility to provide liveable housing, and not to get involved in religious matters.

Fair point. But I heavily doubt such expenses to make the features described have a notable impact on the everyday person's taxes. Government wastes much more money on other things. At least with this, you get a satisfied Muslim populace.

[ivan_the_terrible]

Fair point. But I heavily doubt such expenses to make the features described have a notable impact on the everyday person's taxes. Government wastes much more money on other things. At least with this, you get a satisfied Muslim populace.

It's surely an issue of principle -- that taxpayer money is being used to favour a certain religion and perpetuate inequality at all, not how much.

[Armenum]

The Public should not spend more than unusual to cater to a specific group, these migrants either adapt to standard homes available to all on welfare or better yet pay for the modifications with their own money. I don't see why the public should pay for it.

Are immigrants rare Siberian cats that need special catering ?

Possibly, it would be a better idea for them to be required to pay for the modifications, though there's pretty much little effect in the public paying for it. But that being said, the outcry from the Dutch right is quite disproportionate.

It's surely an issue of principle -- that taxpayer money is being used to favour a certain religion and perpetuate inequality at all, not how much.

I understand that, but the housing authority also has it's own side "...,that the homes have been renovated to improve their "rentability" and that it is just trying to keep everyone happy."

It’s not so much about the amount as the point. Also, the fact if you justify spending public money on funding private religious items once, its in all likelihood going to happen again, and considering it should be zero it sets a bad precedent.

Yeah but if your constituency demands one thing, you can grant it. It's a natural process of democracy. I understand your point, but I think what was done here was much more innocent than what Gilders et Co. are trying to paint.

[justicar5]

Not sure how Dutch social housing works, but it is presumably tax payer paid.

Working on that idea, if I was a Dutch taxpayer I would be annoyed. Due to the fact that my money is used to fund private religious items, it's not the governments place.

If government money is not used then I would have no problem with the changes, but for my point of view it’s the governments responsibility to provide liveable housing, and not to get involved in religious matters.

If it's anything like the UK it's government as land lord.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

Not sure how Dutch social housing works, but it is presumably tax payer paid.

Working on that idea, if I was a Dutch taxpayer I would be annoyed. Due to the fact that my money is used to fund private religious items, it's not the governments place.

If government money is not used then I would have no problem with the changes, but for my point of view it’s the governments responsibility to provide liveable housing, and not to get involved in religious matters.

It's not just Wilders who's angry about this. When I read about this in the paper, it said that people from every political spectrum are angry about this.

These things are funded with taxpayers money, and are rented out at all kinds of (poor) people, when these people are no longer entitled to the house/appartement (because they earn too much, or the make up of the inhabiting family changes) they have to move and another familly has to rent it. This was a building that was renovated, the woningbouwvereniging that manages and renovates the building allowed itself to be influenced by the people renting it right now whom came with their sugestions and wishes and the woningbouwvereniging used tax payers money to do something it has never done before! Also, they should abstain from catering to specific religiously inspired changes, because those appartements are not ment for Muslims specifically, but for all entitled people of all cultures, now they gave a signal that this building is ment for Muslims and Muslims only

[Lord Baratheon]

''God Hates The Netherlands.Lets make this crystal clear: The Netherlands is the filthiest country in the world, bar none.''-Westboro Baptist Church.

But seriously.I hope the Dutch are beginning to realise the effects of Multiculturalism.Even if they did stop it,irreparable damage been done to their culture and civilisation.

[mongrel]

Not sure how Dutch social housing works, but it is presumably tax payer paid.

Working on that idea, if I was a Dutch taxpayer I would be annoyed. Due to the fact that my money is used to fund private religious items, it's not the governments place.

If government money is not used then I would have no problem with the changes, but for my point of view it’s the governments responsibility to provide liveable housing, and not to get involved in religious matters.

Kitchen doors are not religious items. I know that doors are a regular feature of Dutch buildings.

How about no ?

They want medieval society let them go back to whatever rat hole they crawled out of and enjoy it while they can.

But bending over to and accepting these medieval policies will serve to radicalize the rest of the population and get it riled up against such ideologies and that is a plus, too bad most will go to the right because of it.

But since the left has been transformed into such a definition of weakness and attitude of surrender i'm not surprised. What the European left needs is a strong extreme left party with radical policies against religion but since we don't have that the right will continue to grow.

Having doors in your house is medieval now? What do these doors look like?

[Hazelnut]

Kitchen doors are not religious items. I know that doors are a regular feature of Dutch buildings.

I was only talking about the tap for washing feet, which although a tap is not a religious item, the position, and implication from this article, suggests that it is put there solely for religious purpose.