Germans

[RagingCroppy]

I would trade-off the Quadi with the very Rome-friendly Hermunduri.
If you want to show differences (like differences in roman families) in those suebian tribes, you can display the Marcomanni or Langobardi as very warlike, the Semnoni as kind of more religious and cultural and the Hermunduri as more open for trade and foreign contacts for example.
OR
CA could go with the well-know Cherusci, the militaristic Chatti and the Suebi for greater differences.

Or you could use the roman family mechanism to depict German families inside a tribe with those ideas? CA have stated time and time again that they want a human element. Not a generic faction element.

• One family could be traders who are more friendly toward foreigners and more likely to seek an alliances and trade in order to get wealth, power, and technology. The ancestors to the people who collaborated with the Romans.
  
  
• Another would be aggressors. They want to be powerful like Rome but want do it independently. They are good at raiding and wish to unite the tribes into a new power. Basically the ancestors of Arminius.
  
  
• Then you have reactionaries who want to keep to the old ways and stay independent. They are more defensive, good at ambushing, and focused on farming. Basically the ancestors of the people who killed Arminius.

That's off the top of my head. This one tribe now has more human personality than any "confederacy of tribes" It also gives the player a choice of how they play their campaign, economically/politically, aggressively, or conservatively.

[Ariovist]

Or you could use the roman family mechanism to depict German families inside a tribe with those ideas? CA have stated time and time again that they want a human element. Not a generic faction element.

• One family could be traders who are more friendly toward foreigners and more likely to seek an alliances and trade in order to get wealth, power, and technology. The ancestors to the people who collaborated with the Romans.
  
  
• Another would be aggressors. They want to be powerful like Rome but want do it independently. They are good at raiding and wish to unite the tribes into a new power. Basically the ancestors of Arminius.
  
  
• Then you have reactionaries who want to keep to the old ways and stay independent. They are more defensive, good at ambushing, and focused on farming. Basically the ancestors of the people who killed Arminius.

That's off the top of my head. This one tribe now has more human personality than any "confederacy of tribes" It also gives the player a choice of how they play their campaign, economically/politically, aggressively, or conservatively.

Hm, not my cup of tea.
I would definately prefer the Suebi as the "faction" and 3 of the suebian tribes as "families".

[Der Phönix]

Non of the Germanic Tribes hat central authority. Non of the Gaul and Briton tribes too. But that is no reason to let them out in my eyes. I am a big fan of the chatti and i would like to see them impleted in the game, even if it is just one or two AoR Units.

I'd like to see all this too, but not as one faction each.

[TheTank]

For the Germanic's I would prefer these (sub) factions

Ingaevones:
Main tribe
Cimbri/Teutones
Minor tribes
Ambrones
Chauci=Terp building faction in NW Germany, according to Tacitus they were not a aggressive tribe but according to other ancient sources they were involved in Piracy in the North Sea...
Frisii =Terp building faction in N Netherlands, not a aggressive tribe unless provoked, the Romans discovered this at the battle of Baduhenna forest..

Irminones/Suebians
Main tribe
Semnones
Minor tribes
Hermunduri
Marcomanni
Winnili/Lombards (probably not yet part of the Suebian confederation during RTW2 timeframe)

The Chatti should be an emerging faction because the region they inhabited was clearly of Celtic culture during much of RTW2 time frame.
I believe they are later Germanic speaking arrivals who conquered a Celtic region and mixed with the local population.
The Batavians are also a part of the Chattians.

Other minor Germanic tribes like the Rugians, Suiones, Hilleviones should also be in the game but probably not playable factions.

[Thorn777]

You guys must really love Cimbri. Why? Aside hording they did nothing remarkable.

lol are you srs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Arausio

The terrible defeat gave Gaius Marius the opportunity to come to the force and radically reform the organization and recruitment of Roman legions. Roman losses are described as being up to 80,000 troops, as well as another 40,000 auxiliary troops (allies), servants and camp followers — virtually all of their participants in the battle. In numbers killed, this battle is regarded as the greatest defeat of Rome ever throughout its ancient history.

120.000 dead Roman troops just that one battle. Rome's biggest numerical defeat ever. NVM the 24.000 at Noreia.

Rome panicked and seen another Gauls at the Gates moment. Would the Cimbri have marched on Rome instead of raiding Iberia(which gave Marius the time for his vast and politically challenging reforms, literally asking the aristocracy to give it up or die), then history could be another one. But as it is, its quite "remarkable" enough to be included in a videogame around Rome and her wars.

[Stavroforos]

Is the standard for being important in antiquity defeating Roman legions?

[RagingCroppy]

Hm, not my cup of tea.
I would definately prefer the Suebi as the "faction" and 3 of the suebian tribes as "families".

Well then I'll agree to disagree. If the large centralized government of Rome gets to have "human-level drama" then why not the small decentralized tribal societies where families could have an even greater impact?

[Thorn777]

Is the standard for being important in antiquity defeating Roman legions?

Its not the standard, its the epitome.

[Heathen Storm]

As the Suebi, unlike Rome, had no central authority I'm not so sure about this...

Actually, the Semnones were considered the "main" tribe of the Suebi (the largest of the tribes). They were also known to have chieftains, or a High King of sorts, such as Ariovistus.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Its not the standard, its the epitome.

The the Arabs should be in. They've beaten the Romans a few times, even contributed to the lost of large territory of the Romans later on.

[Futski]

In my opinion they shouldn't be playable.
Germanic tribes before 110 BC?
Kind of emergent faction maybe.

B.t.w. the Alemannii were a tribal confederation relatively late in the AD timeframe of roman power.

What kind of reason is that?

Don't you think there were people in Germania before 110 BC, just because the Romans didn't encounter them before that?

Roman contact shouldn't be the basis for "who makes the cut" and who doesn't. I would like to see Baktria, Saba and maybe the Saka, eventhough the Romans never met them in battle.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Making a faction playable isn't the same as faction being in the game. We're past 20 faction + 1 rebel hard coded already. You'll see multiple germanic tribes, multiple gallic tribes, a few italic tribes etc.

[Thorn777]

The the Arabs should be in. They've beaten the Romans a few times, even contributed to the lost of large territory of the Romans later on.

Yeah, like 700 years later when the game has long ended.

Look. This isnt an argument and all has been layed out. Your logical fallacies dont change that.

The Cimbri have been around long before they became a danger to Rome around 100BC. And having them develop like any factions before it expands, and first fight off other neigboring factions till they get around 100BC isnt a stretch.

Your thinking is a stretch. I think rather than dealing with Germanophiles as another thread suggested, we are much more dealing with Germanophobes.

I cant explain the ridiculousness otherwise. Whats next. The Huns?

[AngryTitusPullo]

I'm just arguing that if a german tribe should be one of the playable faction because they have destroyed 3 roman legions long after players most completed the game already then why not the Arabs ? 7 years or 700 years didn't matter.

[Ariovist]

I'm just arguing that if a german tribe should be one of the playable faction because they have destroyed 3 roman legions long after players most completed the game already then why not the Arabs ? 7 years or 700 years didn't matter.

Sad to see you using such arguments.
I think it is clear by now that although CA makes a game with the spotlight on Rome, they also said it is not centered on Rome alone. It seems you want a game that is only centered around the Mediterran.
I really would like to be germanic tribes a emergent faction myself, but the way CA made their Grand Campaigns is as it is.

What kind of reason is that?

Don't you think there were people in Germania before 110 BC, just because the Romans didn't encounter them before that?

Roman contact shouldn't be the basis for "who makes the cut" and who doesn't. I would like to see Baktria, Saba and maybe the Saka, eventhough the Romans never met them in battle.

Well, there were people around at 270BC, but the migration of the germanic tribes happened a lot later into the territory the Romans called Germania.
The lands were settled by celtic people, before the germanic tribes pushed them southwards and westwards.
It has nothinv to do with encountering the Romans.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Sad to see you using such arguments.
I think it is clear by now that although CA makes a game with the spotlight on Rome, they also said it is not centered on Rome alone. It seems you want a game that is only centered around the Mediterran.
I really would like to be germanic tribes a emergent faction myself, but the way CA made their Grand Campaigns is as it is.

It's simple. Up until now I have not seen any convincing argument why a germanic tribe should be playable out of another 6 free slot (we can assume that Carthage is the second playable faction after Rome).

There's no argument I have seen so far which convince me this. At most there will be 2 factions under the barbarian culture slot it for me it makes much more sense in to have those that have more direct impact especially at the start of the game. Gameplay wise I think it'll probabably be one of the gallic tribe and one maybe in Iberia, either the Lusotanian or Celtiberian.

The playable factions represent key powers within the Greco-Roman, Barbarian, and Eastern cultures, and each offers a notably different and deeper form of gameplay experience from those in previous Total War games.

Not that I care anyway since I have no personal intention of playing other than Rome.

[Futski]

Well, there were people around at 270BC, but the migration of the germanic tribes happened a lot later into the territory the Romans called Germania.
The lands were settled by celtic people, before the germanic tribes pushed them southwards and westwards.
It has nothinv to do with encountering the Romans.

Some of Germania was populated by celtic people, but Scandinavia and Holstein was populated by Germanic tribes since before 700 BC, the northern Netherlands and Pommerania were settled with Germanic tribes in 500 BC.

Germanic tribes should definetly be available, not as emergent, but from the start.

[Stavroforos]

Yeah, if we're only getting 8 playable slots, I think they should be given in order of importance, meaning Rome, Carthage, Greece, Macedon, Egypt, the Seleucids, have to be included. No barbarian faction should take the slot of a major power of the time, regardless of how many fanboys there are in the modern barbarian country.

[UsulDaNeriak]

There's no argument I have seen so far which convince me this. At most there will be 2 factions under the barbarian culture slot it for me it makes much more sense in to have those that have more direct impact especially at the start of the game. Gameplay wise I think it'll probabably be one of the gallic tribe and one maybe in Iberia, either the Lusotanian or Celtiberian.

This is your only valid argument so far.

I agree, if we look to the barbarian cultures 300-1 BC (which is propably the timeframe, Rome 2 focus on) and if we assume, that just 2 out of 8 cultures will be barbarian, and if we prioritize according to impact on the mediterenean world, than things become nasty: under these very special assumptions Gallic tribes and Iberian tribes are perhaps the obvious choice. On the other hand, if "impact" means offensive impact and not just a rather defensive existence inside their territory, the germans are superior over the iberians, just due to Cimbri et Teutones and Ariovistus in this timeframe.

But who told you, that they will launch with just 2 barbarian factions? If just 3, things become easier for the germans. Well 3 barbarian factions means just 3 rest for the greek/eastern factions. So I see your point.

[Thorn777]

Yeah, if we're only getting 8 playable slots, I think they should be given in order of importance, meaning Rome, Carthage, Greece, Macedon, Egypt, the Seleucids, have to be included. No barbarian faction should take the slot of a major power of the time, regardless of how many fanboys there are in the modern barbarian country.

Wishful thinking from the guy who thinks military conflict isnt a standard in a wargame.

Why dont you just develop some Wii game or something where you can develop oratorial skills or do skulpture scraping or something....I think a good game to also involve bored GF's.