View Poll Results: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

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  • Because he really did recieve divine revelations.

    6 15.38%
  • He honestly believed he recieved divine revelations, but was delusional.

    12 30.77%
  • He was a conman/fraud who falsely claimed to recieve divine revelations.

    15 38.46%
  • Other.

    6 15.38%
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Thread: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

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  1. #1

    Default Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    As we all know, Muhammad claimed to recieve divine revelations, which eventually became the basis for the Quran, the Islamic holy book. We know that Muhammad claimed these were the words of an almighty god (Allah) and Muslims believe it. Those of us who are not Muslims are less inclined to believe that.

    However, if you reject the sky god hypothesis for the origin of the Quran, how would you explain Muhammad's claims? Was he hallucinating, though he really believed to be recieving divine revelations (in other words, deluded)? Or was he a conman who falsely claimed to recieve divine revelations for his own gain (or some other reason)?

    Personally I'm inclined to think he was a cunning conman. What I've read of him suggests to me that he was a sociopath, or at least a narcissist. He had plenty of wives, had some self-serving "revelations" (like how he took the wife of his adopted son). Islam also has certain traits of being a personality cult around Muhammad.
    "A skeptic is one who prefers beliefs and conclusions that are reliable and valid to ones that are comforting or convenient, and therefore rigorously and openly applies the methods of science and reason to all empirical claims, especially their own. A skeptic provisionally proportions acceptance of any claim to valid logic and a fair and thorough assessment of available evidence, and studies the pitfalls of human reason and the mechanisms of deception so as to avoid being deceived by others or themselves. Skepticism values method over any particular conclusion." - Dr Steven Novella

  2. #2

    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    Removing verses from the Qur'an after they were no longer useful(The satanic verses) makes me think he was a conman. I wouldn't be surprised though if he actually started believing his own delusions in the end.

  3. #3
    Aeneas Veneratio's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    He was jealous of the Jews and the Christians for their superior religions compared to the native polytheistic faith of his countrymen, and he wanted to make an Arabian version. I believe he either got high and thought he was being guided by the Sky god, or he just lied about the time he spent in that cave making a scribe write down his ideals and beliefs for a new religion.
    Last edited by Aeneas Veneratio; December 08, 2012 at 05:53 AM.
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  4. #4
    The Dude's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    I'll say con man.

  5. #5
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    Muhammad said he recived divine revelations, for the same reasons why the Rabbi of Nazareth said to the world that he was God himself.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Muhammad said he recived divine revelations, for the same reasons why the Rabbi of Nazareth said to the world that he was God himself.
    There is a difference though. Muhammed used the divine revelations he supposedly received to acquire political power, Jesus did not. Muhammed became the leader of a state.

  7. #7
    nce_wht_guy's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enemy of the State View Post
    There is a difference though. Muhammed used the divine revelations he supposedly received to acquire political power, Jesus did not. Muhammed became the leader of a state.
    Or was jesus just killed before he had the chance?
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    Same reason as Jesus. Bog standard mystic con man.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    I doubt he was a conman. Otherwise, he wouldn't have taken the risk of exile from Mecca.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotYetRegistered View Post
    I doubt he was a conman. Otherwise, he wouldn't have taken the risk of exile from Mecca.
    It easn't really a risk. The Meccans mostly found him ridiculous (they asked him to produce a miracle to prove his claim) and he had a hard time to get many followers. In Medina he was for the first time given the opportunity to acquire real political power.
    "A skeptic is one who prefers beliefs and conclusions that are reliable and valid to ones that are comforting or convenient, and therefore rigorously and openly applies the methods of science and reason to all empirical claims, especially their own. A skeptic provisionally proportions acceptance of any claim to valid logic and a fair and thorough assessment of available evidence, and studies the pitfalls of human reason and the mechanisms of deception so as to avoid being deceived by others or themselves. Skepticism values method over any particular conclusion." - Dr Steven Novella

  11. #11
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    Judging by the crazier things he said I'd imagine that he was delusional.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    It's not very bright to assume he was a con man, con mans usually do their stuff for an easy material life, not for founding religions!

  13. #13
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    It's not very bright to assume he was a con man, con mans usually do their stuff for an easy material life, not for founding religions!
    Power or money not one or other, maybe both.

    Oh and Ron Hubbard.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Oh and Ron Hubbard.
    Scientology is a mockery of religion rather than an example, and you know it.

    Difference being religion is free - scientology is very expensive actually, making its cover blow up right away as a money making scheme.

    A con man in most cases can't simply make a new religion in the non-mockery term of it - founding a religion, amongst many things, requires you to be spiritually serious about it.

  15. #15
    The Dude's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    Scientology is a mockery of religion rather than an example, and you know it.
    We know it like the Romans knew it of Christianity in 200 AD.

  16. #16
    LSJ's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    I'm undecided. Muhammed and Jesus have a similar beginning - divine revelations only given to them with nothing but their word to support it - but there are some big differences. Jesus promoted men leaving their families, giving to charity, and living lives of poverty, which may show he wasn't a conman, but a delusional cult leader.

    Whereas Muhammed's cult grew into a political institution from the beginning, preaching against the idolators who controlled the city and threatening the source of their wealth. It was like communism in a way, spreading among the disadvantaged and poor and causing a major social and political revolution. So Muhammed may have used religion as a pretext to overthrow society.

  17. #17
    Aeneas Veneratio's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    It's not very bright to assume he was a con man, con mans usually do their stuff for an easy material life, not for founding religions!
    He got the chance to be a general, a celebrity, a leader and to be remembered throughout history* (your life < "eternal" immortality (historical remembrance)), I would call that a highly successful con.

    Same reason Achilles in the movie Troy went to war, to be remembered.
    Last edited by Aeneas Veneratio; December 08, 2012 at 08:11 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    The same reason Jesus did.
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  19. #19
    Blaze86420's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    I'm laughing at all the people who truly think he's a con artist. Really? What is it exactly that he got in return? Nothing, he died a poor man, governing a handful of towns. He did not call himself king, he did not acquire any spoils that he didn't give to his community, and he did not fashion himself a conqueror. If you actually read about Muhammad's life, and I mean actually read, with an open mind and without bias, you'll find that he truly was sincere in what he believed in. He lived as an outcast for a long time, first in his own city and later as an exile in another. His life was under threat constantly, his entire community, which included his closest friends, was on the brink of annihilation in more than one instance. Yet he did not falter. These are clear signs of faith, it's impossible to believe otherwise because under normal circumstances many would give out going against the considerable odds he faced, yet he did not. And after his miraculous success, he could have lived like an emperor, yet he did not.

    You don't have to believe that he really was a Prophet that received divine revelations to know that he believed he was, because it's clear that he did. He was either an absolute genius with legendary foresight, or he was a normal man with strong faith. Choose which you think is more plausible.
    Last edited by Blaze86420; December 08, 2012 at 12:18 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Why did Muhammad claim to recieve divine revelations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze86420 View Post
    I'm laughing at all the people who truly think he's a con artist. Really? What is it exactly that he got in return? Nothing, he died a poor man, governing a handful of towns. He did not call himself king, he did not acquire any spoils that he didn't give to his community, and he did not fashion himself a conqueror. If you actually read about Muhammad's life, and I mean actually read, with an open mind and without bias, you'll find that he truly was sincere in what he believed in. He lived as an outcast for a long time, first in his own city and later as an exile in another. His life was under threat constantly, his entire community, which included his closest friends, was on the brink of annihilation in more than one instance. Yet he did not falter. These are clear signs of faith, it's impossible to believe otherwise because under normal circumstances many would give out going against the considerable odds he faced, yet he did not. And after his miraculous success, he could have lived like an emperor, yet he did not.

    You don't have to believe that he really was a Prophet that received divine revelations to know that he believed he was, because it's clear that he did. He was either an absolute genius with legendary foresight, or he was a normal man with strong faith. Choose which you think is more plausible.
    Pretty much my opinion.

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