The Final Solution

[Perikles]

As Bel. has said the Curia is bored. As others have said the Curia is full of it's own self importance. The Curia has turned into a merry go round of bickering and squabbling over petty things that signify nothing.

I propose a series of reforms, some ideas taken from Bel., but mostly my own to turn the curia into the place it should be. You may agree with some ideas, but not others, don't reject one idea because another is not as good, this doesn't come as a package.

Council of Peace and War

These 2 councils should be merged into one advisory body for staff. But instead of like now, where no changes have being implemented, their should be more input from staff and the members themselves. This is becasue I don't think we need 2 councils, 1 council should suffice. Hopefully if there is one council there will be more to talk about, more ideas, and as staff have only one place to look, more input from them.
Another idea is that there is a public subforum for discussion and suggestions and a publically viewable inner forum where the real decisons are made by the councillors. But the Council should always keep in mind that it is only an advisory body.

CDC

The QP should be made visible. There is no reason why it shouldn't be, and it would stop any more arguing over things being too secretive.

Elections

I would recommend that the total number of people allowed in a vote be lowered to 7/8. But as the current elections have shown the Curia is incapable of a) conducting itself properly (without squabbling) b) selecting the moderators needed (EU timezone, however I am guilty of this too ) We jsut seem to chose the candidate we have seen most of or talked to most or whatever, whcih amounts to nothing more than a popularity contest, I still can't decide whether elections are a good thing or not. I am only talking about Moderator elections here, not CDC/PC/CoP.

Ranks

Why oh why do we always argue about ranks? it's because we love nothing more than a good bit of drama. We love nothing better than promoting and demoting people all the time, I think we have too many ranks. In my opinion Artifex is a wasted rank, unless we have an 'Ivory Tower'. Which is another thing I propose.

Boredom

Like LV has said, we are bored, and to get rid of this boredom, we bicker. I propose, like he said, we have a Civitates evernt chamber, but in the Symposium, there is no need for a whole new section. What events we could have, I don't know, but it is a good idea all the same.


In the end I am looking for a more streamlined Curia, a Curia without the bickering and RPG charcteristics, a Curia that advises and helps the site and it's staff, rather than hinders. A Curia that is not full of it's own self importance, and doesn't have to have prolonged drama to survive. is this the kind of Curia you want?

No offense meant by thread title, it's jsut meant to be the fianl solution to the curia's problems

[Reidy]

I agree with what you've said, especially about ranks and elections.

BTW, you spelled "Solution" incorrectly.

[Romanos]

Good idea JP it could work in the long run. I support it. Still the elections there will always have people crying because they where not chosen as a candidate.

As Bel. has said the Curia is bored. As others have said the Curia is full of it's own self importance. The Curia has turned into a merry go round of bickering and squabbling over petty things that signify nothing.

The Curia has always been like that my friend, we just like to fight between are self.

[gigagaia]

Council of Peace and War

These 2 councils should be merged into one advisory body for staff. But instead of like now, where no changes have being implemented, their should be more input from staff and the members themselves. This is becasue I don't think we need 2 councils, 1 council should suffice. Hopefully if there is one council there will be more to talk about, more ideas, and as staff have only one place to look, more input from them.
Another idea is that there is a public subforum for discussion and suggestions and a publically viewable inner forum where the real decisons are made by the councillors. But the Council should always keep in mind that it is only an advisory body.

I don't really see a problem with the different councils though? Perhaps you can elaborate as to why we need to merge them?

CDC

The QP should be made visible. There is no reason why it shouldn't be, and it would stop any more arguing over things being too secretive.

The CdeC needs a whole lot of work that merits its own thread, to be honest. There are a lot of kinks that need ironing out. It's a great body with great potential, but it is also a new idea which needs more discussion and refinement.

Elections

I would recommend that the total number of people allowed in a vote be lowered to 7/8. But as the current elections have shown the Curia is incapable of a) conducting itself properly (without squabbling) b) selecting the moderators needed (EU timezone, however I am guilty of this too ) We jsut seem to chose the candidate we have seen most of or talked to most or whatever, whcih amounts to nothing more than a popularity contest, I still can't decide whether elections are a good thing or not. I am only talking about Moderator elections here, not CDC/PC/CoP.

Given all of this furore over the past few days, I'm not quite sure of my opinions on all of this yet...

Ranks

Why oh why do we always argue about ranks? it's because we love nothing more than a good bit of drama. We love nothing better than promoting and demoting people all the time, I think we have too many ranks. In my opinion Artifex is a wasted rank, unless we have an 'Ivory Tower'. Which is another thing I propose.

I like the idea of awarding excellence. I just wish we could implement some sort of medal/multiple badge system.

Boredom
Like LV has said, we are bored, and to get rid of this boredom, we bicker. I propose, like he said, we have a Civitates evernt chamber, but in the Symposium, there is no need for a whole new section. What events we could have, I don't know, but it is a good idea all the same.

I think we need to get a thread going to discuss strengthening the Symposium with a few sub-forums sturctured around ideas like Garb's old fighr club.

In the end I am looking for a more streamlined Curia, a Curia without the bickering and RPG charcteristics, a Curia that advises and helps the site and it's staff, rather than hinders. A Curia that is not full of it's own self importance, and doesn't have to have prolonged drama to survive. is this the kind of Curia you want?

That will, of course, require a change in the general attitudes of the curia and its members towards how they view it. I agree with you on this, on what the curia is capable of and what its role should be. But until we get it out of out head that we cannot own the site and rule over the imperator, that we can somehow escaped the Hobbesian prince, things will never change.

[Perikles]

I don't really see a problem with the different councils though? Perhaps you can elaborate as to why we need to merge them?

I have said this already, it is baisically to streamline things:

This is becasue I don't think we need 2 councils, 1 council should suffice. Hopefully if there is one council there will be more to talk about, more ideas, and as staff have only one place to look, more input from them.

That is the reason.

The CdeC needs a whole lot of work that merits its own thread, to be honest. There are a lot of kinks that need ironing out. It's a great body with great potential, but it is also a new idea which needs more discussion and refinement.

This is the place to discuss them...

Given all of this furore over the past few days, I'm not quite sure of my opinions on all of this yet...

Neither am I. In a way I want elections, in a perfect world, but the Curia is far from perfect...

I like the idea of awarding excellence. I just wish we could implement some sort of medal/multiple badge system.

I definitely agree here, but as long as it does not mean more ranks.

I think we need to get a thread going to discuss strengthening the Symposium with a few sub-forums sturctured around ideas like Garb's old fighr club.

Good idea.

That will, of course, require a change in the general attitudes of the curia and its members towards how they view it. I agree with you on this, on what the curia is capable of and what its role should be. But until we get it out of out head that we cannot own the site and rule over the imperator, that we can somehow escaped the Hobbesian prince, things will never change.

I agree, the more we tell people, the more they don't seem to understand...

[gigagaia]

I have said this already, it is baisically to streamline things:

That is the reason.

I know you said we don't need them. Why don't we need them? Why do we need to streamline? I'd like concrete reasons why the system of these two councils is not working properly, and why amalgmating them would prove better.

This is the place to discuss them...

I disagree. You are suggesting one thread to handle multiple ideas. If the thread picks up steam, how on Earth are we going to keep track of everything? It would be a logisitical nightmare to say the least. Plus how are people going to read through it all and keep track of the discussion?

Neither am I. In a way I want elections, in a perfect world, but the Curia is far from perfect...

I agree and that is why I am not sure where I personally want to go with this.

I definitely agree here, but as long as it does not mean more ranks.

So long as we have no other way, I'd like to see different ranks to recognize. Maybe if we could get ON to let us add in a medal system I would be even happier.

Good idea.

Thank you

Then what would you call the Civitate and Reputation systems?

Civitates are a basic recognition that you are worthy to discuss stuff like what we are right now. Rep is a slight bit of a farce. It's cute and fun, but I don't really see it that much as awarding excellence in the same way.

I am talking about some system whereby we can award excellent posters among civitates for things like superb intellectual contribution or modding.

[Reidy]

I'd prefer to have the reputation system than more and more inconsequential and worthless ranks.

[Tom Paine]

Civitates are a basic recognition that you are worthy to discuss stuff like what we are right now. Rep is a slight bit of a farce. It's cute and fun, but I don't really see it that much as awarding excellence in the same way.

I am talking about some system whereby we can award excellent posters among civitates for things like superb intellectual contribution or modding.

We have too many ranks by half already. Cutting down on them and replacing them with medals, I can see. Making more ranks, I really can't.

[gigagaia]

We have too many ranks by half already. Cutting down on them and replacing them with medals, I can see. Making more ranks, I really can't.

I really think this is the way, to be honest. An Opifex can still be a stock civitate, but have the Opifex medal somewhere in his sig or User Display (If ON would let us)

[Reidy]

I like the idea of awarding excellence. I just wish we could implement some sort of medal/multiple badge system.

Then what would you call the Civitate and Reputation systems?

[Silver Guard]

Medal system: Easy, give them something to put in their Sigs, that they can havew once we agree to give it to them...
Discussion: This is the place to discuss them, too much blathering is happening and no getting done
Why we don't need them: Why do we need two?

[Tom Paine]

Because the sig rules are ON's?
Anyway, you want to discuss something else. Let's deal with elections. CdeC is purely Curial; if it is kept a purely Curial body I can't see a problem with the Curia electing its members if the Curia can keep good order while it does so. Same applies to the councils. Merging the two however could cause problems as we then get people with no or little knowledge of the TW side of affairs sitting there discussing it; I like the separation, but maybe we cuold have the opportunity for the councils to come together at times when discussing ideas for site-wide changes?

[Perikles]

Because the sig rules are ON's?

Ok then...

Anyway, you want to discuss something else. Let's deal with elections. CdeC is purely Curial; if it is kept a purely Curial body I can't see a problem with the Curia electing its members if the Curia can keep good order while it does so.

I said that, didn't you read my post? :tooth:

I am only talking about Moderator elections here, not CDC/PC/CoP.

See...

Same applies to the councils. Merging the two however could cause problems as we then get people with no or little knowledge of the TW side of affairs sitting there discussing it; I like the separation, but maybe we cuold have the opportunity for the councils to come together at times when discussing ideas for site-wide changes?

Exactly, if a person does not understand one community they do not have to discuss. The council should be used more for site changes, I believe it would better fill this capacity.

[Tom Paine]

I said that, didn't you read my post? :tooth:

See...

That doesn't actually adress my point. Which was that some people wnt to give the CdeC stafflike responsibilities in which case the current ssytem of elections with tenure would need a very, very good looking at and an even better reason to justify their continuance.

Exactly, if a person does not understand one community they do not have to discuss. The council should be used more for site changes, I believe it would better fill this capacity.

I repeat, two councils would still be better as we can have changes affecting the CC or parts thereof that con't affect the TW side (eg the new Mudpit rules).

[Perikles]

That doesn't actually adress my point. Which was that some people wnt to give the CdeC stafflike responsibilities in which case the current ssytem of elections with tenure would need a very, very good looking at and an even better reason to justify their continuance.

The CDC should in no way have staff like responsibilities...

I repeat, two councils would still be better as we can have changes affecting the CC or parts thereof that con't affect the TW side (eg the new Mudpit rules).

You can still have things affecting one community in the single council, just not everyone has to contribute.

[Tom Paine]

The CDC should in no way have staff like responsibilities...

Again, we agree.

You can still have things affecting one community in the single council, just not everyone has to contribute.

But what benefit does it have over the two separate councils?

[Belisarius]

This is a rather bastardised version of what I wanted, but meh you have to keep everything secret these days... ah well will post later.

[Simetrical]

Because the sig rules are ON's?

We don't follow ON's sig rules. We have our own sig rules.

[Tom Paine]

We don't follow ON's sig rules. We have our own sig rules.

...That's true, isn't it. Didn't they have to agree to the current ones or is that my imagination?

[Simetrical]

...That's true, isn't it. Didn't they have to agree to the current ones or is that my imagination?

We changed them without asking, to my knowledge. Mithras got kind of annoyed but didn't change them back. As I say, there's no reason to cite ON network policy, it can be ignored by staff if they think it appropriate.