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    Default I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    NOTE THAT IM NOT THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR OF THIS BUT I JUST AGREE WITH THE IDEA PRESENTED HERE.AT THE END OF THE POST YOU WILL FIND THE SOURCE.
    DO NOT COMMENT,EXPRESS YOUR OPINION UNLESS YOU HAVE READ AT ALL,READ ALL THEN COMMENT.




    What is Science?

    Creationists are often accused of being unscientific or pseudoscientific, while at the same time those who promote evolution assume the mantle of “real scientist.” But what is science anyway? According to The American Heritage Dictionary, science is “the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.” Or put more simply, science involves observing things in the real world and trying to explain how they work. The key word here is observation.
    You see, creationists do, indeed, believe in real “observational science,” sometimes called “operational science.” We enjoy the benefits of observational science every day. Whether flying in an airplane, having our illness cured by the wonders of modern medicine, or writing this on a space-age laptop computer, we are benefiting from the technology that applies genuine observational science to real-world needs. These triumphs of science exist in the present and can therefore be the subjects of examination and investigation.
    Another type of science is known as “historical science,” sometimes called “origins science.” Historical science is the process of using the methods of science in the present to determine what happened in the past. Since the physical world exists in the present, all the evidence a scientist has available to examine the physical world also exists in the present. The scientist has no method to examine directly the past; thus, he must make assumptions in order to come to conclusions. However, assumptions are unproven, and generally unprovable, beliefs. Assumptions are no more than untestable guesses.
    Things that happened in the past are just that, past. They cannot be observed or tested in the present. They cannot be repeated or verified in the present. Then, you ask, how do we know so much about the past?

    Understanding the past

    Perhaps an example here would help illustrate this issue. If you were to ask a roomful of people, “Do you think George Washington was a real person?” what would you expect the response to be? Of course, everyone would say that he or she believed George Washington actually existed.
    Now ask this question: “Can you give me a way to prove his existence scientifically, that is, by some experimental procedure?” The usual responses are “Test his DNA,” or “Dig up his bones.” But actually, these methods won’t work. First of all, DNA testing would only work if you already had a valid sample of his DNA to use as a comparison. If you dug up his bones, you still could not prove they were his. In order to make any conclusions, you would have to make some assumptions based on things you could not actually test.
    Well then, if there is no scientific method to prove he lived, how do we know George Washington existed? It’s easy! We have abundant historical documentation of his life. These documents were held to be valid by the people who lived in that day and are not disputed. Thus, we have reliable evidence that he actually walked the earth.

    What Does This Have to Do with Evolution?


    Molecules-to-man evolution is based on the premise that, through mutation and natural selection, organisms have, over the past three billion or so years, become more complex. These organisms have then progressed into an ever-increasing array of creatures until, ultimately, humans arrived on the scene.
    When asked if anyone has ever seen one type of creature change into another, the answer is always no. Confronted with this, the evolutionists will usually counter that it happens too slowly to be seen. The claim is that it takes millions of years for these painfully slow processes to occur. Well then, if the process is too slow to be seen, how do we know it happened at all? After all, no one was there to observe all these organisms slowly changing into more complex forms. Also, there is no way in the present to test or repeat what happened in the past. Any conclusions about things that are not testable in the present must be based on improvable assumptions about the untestable past.
    Ernst Mayr, who is considered by many to be one of the 20th century’s most influential evolutionists, put it this way:
    Evolutionary biology, in contrast with physics and chemistry, is an historical science—the evolutionist attempts to explain events and processes that have already taken place. Laws and experiments are inappropriate techniques for the explication of such events and processes. Instead one constructs a historical narrative, consisting of a tentative reconstruction of the particular scenario that led to the events one is trying to explain.
    He then amazingly concludes, “No educated person any longer questions the validity of the so-called theory of evolution, which we know now to be a simple fact

    So-called Evidence for Evolution


    What is so obvious in our world that Mayr can call goo-to-you evolution “a simple fact,” which according to him no educated person would question? There are many supposed evidences for evolution. We will now consider two of these supposed evidences here and will examine them in the light of observational, rather than historical, science.
    Evolutionists often claim that the theory of evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life. They argue that evolution only deals with issues of the changes in organisms over time. They contend that life has progressed through purely naturalistic means, without any supernatural intervention. However, if they argue that life progresses by purely naturalistic mechanisms, then they must also delineate a natural process by which life came into being.
    One supposed evidence for evolution is that life began spontaneously in the earth’s vast oceans approximately three billion years ago. Textbooks, magazines, and television documentaries constantly bombard us with this so-called fact. Just what is the evidence for the evolution of life from nonliving molecules? There isn’t any! There is no method to determine what the earth’s “ancient atmosphere” was like or the composition of the oceans at that time.4 No one was there to test or examine that environment. No one can say with certainty what the chemical makeup of the primordial oceans was. So how can it be claimed that simple proteins and nucleic acids arose spontaneously?
    Based on our knowledge of these molecules using observational science in the present, it is difficult to imagine these processes happening by naturalistic processes. No scientific observation has ever shown how these complex molecules could arise spontaneously, let alone evolve simultaneously and assemble themselves in such a way as to become alive. One prominent evolutionist, Leslie Orgel, notes, “And so, at first glance, one might have to conclude that life could never, in fact, have originated by chemical means.”
    One of the primary evidences used to support the theory of evolution is the fossil record. Evolutionists have long proposed that the fossilized remains of dead organisms, both plant and animal, found in the rock layers prove that life has evolved on the earth over millions of years. Using observational science, how can this conclusion be reached? There are only the fossils themselves to examine. These fossils only exist in the present. There is no method to determine directly what happened to these creatures; neither to determine how they died, nor how they were buried in the sediment, nor how long it took for them to fossilize. Although it is possible to make up a story to explain the fossil record, this contrived story does not meet the criteria for true scientific investigation. A story about the past cannot be scientifically tested in the present.
    The creationist looking at the fossil record reaches a far different conclusion from the evolutionist. To the creationist, the fossils in the rocks represent the result of a global cataclysm with massive sedimentation rapidly burying millions upon millions of creatures. This catastrophic event would account not only for the fossil record but also for the rock layers themselves. (Deposition of sediment in layers would have resulted from sorting in the turbulent Flood and post-Flood waters.) So which viewpoint is correct? Neither the creationist’s nor the evolutionist’s explanation can be tested in the present.
    But in this regard the creationist does have evidence. Evidence is found in a book called the Bible. The Bible claims to be the Word of God. It is a record of what God did and when He did it. In the Bible we learn how life began—God created it. The Bible helps us understand the fossil record—much of it is the result of a worldwide flood as described in Genesis 6–8. Like the historical documents that establish George Washington existed, we have a reliable historical document called the Bible to give us answers about our origin and about our world.
    An evolutionist has no historical documentation for his viewpoint. He relies on the assumptions of historical science for support. Herein lies a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose and potential of science. Scientific inquiry properly involves the investigation of processes that are observable, testable, and repeatable. The origin and development of life on earth cannot be observed, tested, or repeated because it happened in the past.
    So, is evolution observable science? No, evolution falls under the realm of historical science; it is a belief system about the past. How can an evolutionist believe these things without rigorous scientific proof? The answer is that he wants to. Evolutionists are quite sincere in their beliefs, but ultimately these beliefs are based on their view that the world originated by itself through totally naturalistic processes. There is a term for this type of belief system—that term is religion. Religion is “a cause, a principle, or an activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.”It should be pointed out that religion does not necessarily involve the concept of God.
    Perhaps a few observations from some of the world’s leading evolutionists will now put the question posed in the title of this chapter into perspective.

    Evolution as a Religion

    Dr. Michael Ruse, from the Department of Philosophy at the University of Guelph in Ontario, is a philosopher of science, particularly of the evolutionary sciences. He is the author of several books on Darwinism and evolutionary theory and in an article in the National Post he wrote:
    Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. . . . Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.
    This is an incredible admission: the study of the origin and development of life-forms on earth is not “mere science,” but “a secular religion.”
    However, this is also the view of William Provine, the Charles A. Alexander Professor of Biological Sciences at the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at Cornell University. Writing in Origins Research, he tells us, “Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear.” Now you would expect this leading professor of biology to say that modern evolutionary biology tells us something about the origin of life or something about natural selection or something about the origin of species or something about genetics. But, no! According to this leading evolutionary biologist, modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear that:
    There are no gods, no purposes, no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end for me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning to life, and no free will for humans, either.
    It is obvious that these two influential biologists believe that evolution is a religion—a religion of atheism where there are no end products and where evolution reigns supreme.

    Religion of Atheism


    Writing a superb article about the rise of the Darwinian fundamentalism in The Spectator, the journalist Paul Johnson sums up the belief system of atheistic evolutionists with great insightfulness.
    Nature does not distinguish between a range of mountains, like the Alps, or a stone or a clever scientist like Professor Dawkins, because it is sightless, senseless and mindless, being a mere process operating according to rules which have not been designed but simply are.
    Although Paul Johnson uses the word nature, he actually is referring to evolution. By this he means chance random processes honed by natural selection over eons of time. This is the process by which everything has been created, according to the evolutionists. The everything can be an inanimate object like a range of mountains, or it can be incredibly complex creatures like you and the authors of this book.
    This belief in molecules-to-man evolution can and does cause people to become atheists as admitted by leading atheist Dr. Richard Dawkins, the Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University. In answer to the question “Is atheism the logical extension of believing evolution?” Dawkins replied, “My personal feeling is that understanding evolution led me to atheism.”

    Evolution—an Attractive Religion


    At first sight, believing in evolution may not seem an attractive proposition. However, what makes it attractive is that there is no God to whom you have to give an account of your actions. This is borne out by the following quote from an atheist:
    We no longer feel ourselves to be guests in someone else’s home and therefore obliged to make our behavior conform with a set of pre-existing cosmic rules. It is our creation now. We make the rules. We establish the parameters of reality. We create the world, and because we do, we no longer feel beholden to outside forces. We no longer have to justify our behavior, for we are now the architects of the universe. We are responsible to nothing outside ourselves, for we are the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever and ever.
    Evolution therefore leads to the teaching that you can do as you please. You can live your life just to please yourself. Many people today live such a life. They have abandoned the faith of their forefathers and have embraced the doctrines of evolution with its atheism.

    That leads us to the evil side of so called:“Religion evolution embraced with atheism“

    Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler
    (1889-1945) endorsed a program in Germany to breed a superior race. The scheme was based on a horrific evolutionary theory called “eugenics” that was founded by Charles Darwin's cousin, Francis Galton. The idea of eugenics was to improve the human race using principles promoted in the theory of evolution.
    The idea was simple: partition the human race into two groups, the “fit” and the “unfit.” Eugenics seemed to be a way to make sure the “fit” had children and the “unfit” did not. In Germany, the leaders of the eugenics movement got monstrous laws enacted that allowed sterilization of people regarded as “unfit,” and restriction of immigrants who were supposedly “biologically inferior.” (The United States and other countries enacted similar laws, but the Nazis took it to the extreme when Jews, blacks, and others were ruthlessly murdered to prop up the theory.)
    The German people were being seduced to accept that they could be the “master race” by exterminating the “unfit.” If evolution was right, they reasoned, and “survival of the fittest” was merely a positive, evolutionary process, then what could be wrong with hastening the deaths of the “unfit”?
    Eugenics could only become popular because the theory of evolution seemed to have quashed the need for the sovereign Creator, God, who had given humankind absolute moral laws. When you do away with moral laws, outrageous racism and crimes like compulsory sterilization, Hitler's death camps, and mass murder on a maniacal scale can no longer be said to be evil.


    Trotsky … another monster brainwashed by evolution


    Russian communist leader Leon Trotsky (1879-1940), left, was a fanatical supporter of Marxism and Darwinism. In the Russian Civil War of 1918-20, he used the force of the Red Army to stamp out whoever he decided was an enemy of the Soviet State.
    He confiscated food from peasants, brutalized the Ukrainian army of insurgent peasants, and killed its guerrilla leader, N. I. Makhno.
    He inflicted torture and violence against Christians, mercilessly trashed churches, and led the Society of the Godless to get rid of religion.
    Trotsky was mesmerized by Charles Darwin's Origin of Species. He said: “Darwin stood for me like a mightly doorkeeper at the entrance to the temple of the universe.” He said that Darwin's ideas “intoxicated” him. And he could not understand in the slightest how belief in God could find room in the same head as belief in Darwin's ideas.
    Like Hitler, Trotsky was a tyrant who saw Darwin's theory of evolution as scientific justification for dismissing God's moral laws. He clearly saw that the two ideas, God and evolution, were totally incompatible. His atrocities were consistent with this belief, for when you do away with the idea of the God who created you and who has given instructions for the right way to live, there is no reason to avoid despicably violent crimes. Even if this means murdering everyone who disagrees with you.

    World's worst mass-murderer was influenced by Darwin at 19


    Russian dictator and revolutionist, Joseph Stalin (1879-1953), was studying at Tiflis Theological Seminary when he started to read the works of Charles Darwin. One of his friends later said in a book that when Stalin read Darwin he became an atheist. The theological seminary expelled Stalin at the age of 19 because of his revolutionary connections.
    Stalin is regarded as the worst mass-murderer the world has ever seen. With God out of his way after embracing Darwin's evolutionary ideas, Stalin had no restrictions of conscience or morals. He set up a terrorist police State, persecuted and murdered innocent communists, and instituted trials in which most surviving Bolshevik leaders were found guilty of treachery and were executed. He encouraged “Stalinist adoration,” which included naming cities after him (such as Stalingrad, Staliniri, and Stalinogorsk), and advocated homage given to him in virtually all public speeches and in print. He murdered Leon Trotsky.
    Darwin's “survival of the fittest” ideas powerfully shaped Stalin's approach to society. Oppression, atheism, self-glorification, and the blood of his many innocent victims flowed from Stalin's rejection of his Creator after reading and believing Darwin's evolutionary theories.
    And the most tragic aspect of all this? That while Stalin, Trotsky, and Hitler were turning their backs on their Creator, they were building their murderous, racist philosophies on a lie.

    Evolutionists who reject God and miracles have some huge problems to explain...

    How did the universe come about?


    There is of course no scientific law or demonstrable process that would let something evolve from nothing. If there was nothing in the universe to begin with, obviously nothing could happen to cause anything to appear.
    Atheistic evolutionists often try to duck this problem — which is impossible for them to answer satisfactorily — by saying that evolution is not concerned with the origin of life, only how life progressed after it appeared. But assuming the existence of an intricately working universe with some sort of life-forms already in it is not a minor assumption, and puts more faith in an unknown, counter-intuitive process than Christians put in God.
    The problem is that if you can't get something from nothing, it's pointless thinking you can accurately explain the next step. Juggle the figures any way you like, but without a Creator you are not going to get anything, let alone everything.

    How could living creatures come from non-life?


    Again, there is no scientific law or demonstrable process that can account for non-living objects coming to life. The non-living soil in your garden didn't turn into living trees and flowers. They came from seeds, cuttings, or grafts from other living trees and flowers. Life invariably comes from something that is already alive.
    Atheistic evolutionists have long believed that at some time in the distant past, life arose from non-living substances. British biologist T.H. Huxley in 1869 and physicist John Tyndall in 1874 were early promoters of the idea that life could be generated from inorganic chemicals.
    But biology has found no support for this, and much against it. The invariable observation is that only living things give rise to other living things. Life could not begin if God and miracles took no part!
    Dr. Kenneth Poppe says in his book Exposing Evolution's Weakest Link,
    “There are no provable mechanisms for how molecules could increase in complexity without cells to produce and utilize them. For example, you cannot assume proteins before you have the DNA that codes for them.”
    Imagine all life on earth disappeared. There are no trees, plants or animals. All we have is rocks, dust, and lifeless matter. So how does the earth get populated with living things? That's the atheist evolutionist's unanswerable dilemma, and shows the massive faith they have to hold in preposterous answers.

    How could new genetic information arise?


    There is no known scientific law that would allow one kind of creature to turn naturally into a completely different kind. Insects don't evolve into more complex non-insects for instance, because they don't have the genes to do it.
    To show that all life evolved from a single cell, which itself came from some type of chemical soup, there would have had to be massive genetic information gains.
    But evolutionists have failed to show how this gain of new information occurred. Where did the information come from for the first bristles, stomachs, spines, intestines, complex blood circulation systems, intricate mouthpieces to strain special foods out of the water, and so on, when these were supposedly not present in the ancestral species?
    The theory of evolution teaches that complex life-forms evolved from simple life-forms. There is no natural law known that could allow this to happen. The best that evolutionists can come up with to try to explain how this might have happened is to propose that it happened by mutations and natural selection.
    But mutations and natural selection do not show gain in information, just rearrangement or loss of what is already there — therefore there may be beneficial mutations without an increase in genetic information.
    Mutations overwhelmingly destroy genetic information and produce creatures more handicapped than the parents. And natural selection simply weeds out unfit creatures. Natural selection may explain why light-colored moths decrease and dark moths proliferate, but it cannot show that moths could ever turn into effective, totally different, non-moth creatures. Moths do not have the genetic information to turn into something that is not a moth, no matter how much time you give them. Nor could they evolve from something that was totally different from a moth.

    Where is the proof that apes turned into humans?


    Despite the evidence being pathetic, even if you claim the title of World's Biggest Optimist, evolutionists still tell the story that once upon a time humans evolved from ape-like creatures.
    Many years ago this argument seemed credible to a lot of people because there was so little hominid fossil evidence that it was easy to imagine evolutionary links everywhere.
    But things have changed. Thousands of fossils and fossil fragments of apes and humans have now been found — and they don't show a steady progression from apes to humans at all. Fossils have been found in the wrong time-frames, put into the wrong categories before all the evidence was in, and what was once thought to be the ape-human family tree now actually has no trunk — just unconnected branches.
    Because evolutionists can't change their theory, they are stuck with the evidence looking more confusing for them with each new hominid/homin/hominine fossil discovery. Instead of clarifying the alleged link between apes and humans, new fossil discoveries are making it harder to show which type of ape or ape-like creature evolved into a human.

    Alternative view


    I believe that the evidence is stronger for those who believe the Bible's account of creation — that in the beginning God created the world and all the major types of creatures to reproduce “after their kind”.

    Common comments against creationists
    :

    We are uneducated !diots who don't have a clue what evolution is all about. They variously accuse us of being “mor0ns,” “gullible,” “dishonest,” “insane,” “opposed to science,” and similar unflattering words. And we should apologize because we don't believe in evolution? (So much for free speech!)

    Source used in this post but slightly edited by me:
    “The new answers book 2“ by Dr. Tommy Mitchell & Dr. A.J. Monty White

  2. #2
    The Dude's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    I read the whole thing and discovered no stupid question or argument I wasn't already familiar with. There's even a Godwin in there. Exceptionally well done. As far as creationist tripe goes this one checks all the boxes. Welcome to the wrong side of history, enjoy your stay.

    Also, free speech is a legal freedom to speak your mind. It's not a moral freedom to talk out of your ass and expect noone to call you out on it. Nobody's silencing the author of the article you posted, just as noone's silencing me for what I'm criticising him on. Seriously, the free speech remark just adds insult to injury.
    Last edited by The Dude; December 06, 2012 at 07:16 PM.

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    Blatta Optima Maxima's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I read the whole thing and discovered no stupid question or argument I wasn't already familiar with. There's even a Godwin in there. Exceptionally well done. As far as creationist tripe goes this one checks all the boxes. Welcome to the wrong side of history, enjoy your stay.

    Also, free speech is a legal freedom to speak your mind. It's not a moral freedom to talk out of your ass and expect noone to call you out on it. Nobody's silencing the author of the article you posted, just as noone's silencing me for what I'm criticising him on. Seriously, the free speech remark just adds insult to injury.
    Indeed, it's just the same old stuff all over again. I believe this is just one of those cases where my policy of not bothering applies.

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    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    I read the headlines* and decided it was a waste of time. My deity Thor would not allow me to waste my time in such a manner...

    *Evolution as a Religion, Religion of Atheism, Evolution—an Attractive Religion and That leads us to the evil side of so called:“Religion evolution embraced with atheism“.
    Evolution is not a religion, atheism is not a religion and the last one is just pure nonsense.

    This one needs an explanation, "World's worst mass-murderer was influenced by Darwin at 19" - I just searched the wiki article on Stalin and it doesn't state anything about Darwin. Same thing with "Trotsky … another monster brainwashed by evolution", nothing mentioning Darwin.


    Stalin and Darwin - Very long, DON'T REPLY UNLESS YOU HAVE READ IT ALL.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Marx, Stalin, and Darwin

    Posted on 4-December-2008 | 19 Comments
    CREATIONISTS frequently use as one of their standard lies the claim that there is some kind of causal linkage between Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution and communism. They often assert a direct linkage between Darwin and Karl Marx, and from there they blame Darwin for the atrocities of Stalin.
    Sometimes the smear is more subtle, involving a half-truth. Creationists correctly link Marx and Stalin with atheism (asserting that atheism is the principal cause of their actions), and then they toss Darwin into the same discussion, so that he and his allegedly atheistic theory of evolution can be assigned a share their guilt merely because his name is mentioned along with theirs.
    This is an exceedingly weak accusation against Darwin, involving two very debatable assumptions followed by an uncertain conclusion: (1) atheism caused the horrors of communism; and (2) Darwin’s theory is atheistic. Therefore, Darwin is accountable for the career of Stalin.
    Regarding the first “debatable assumption,” that Stalin’s atheism was the cause of his atrocities — perhaps it was. But we suspect that if the holy warriors of the Crusades had been equipped with modern weapons, they would have given Stalin some real competition. History teaches that religion is no guarantor of civilized behavior.
    The second “debatable assumption,” that Darwin’s theory is atheistic, is no more true of evolution than of any other scientific theory. Many religious denominations have no problem understanding that. See: Statements from Religious Organizations, and also The Clergy Letter Project. Darwin’s theory isn’t against religion, or even about religion; it’s about the evolution of living things. If you choose to believe that everything is a miracle, then all natural explanations will offend you, and you can link all scientists with Stalin.
    Because there is no actual Darwin-Marx linkage, the neo-theocrats at the Discovery Institute’s Center for Science and Culture (a/k/a the Discoveroids) prefer the second method, which asserts guilt by the very dubious alleged association described above. Here are a couple of examples:
    In this article by Bruce Chapman, president of the Discovery Institute, Kirk Answers Brooks on the Status of Darwinism in Western Culture, Chapman mentions Darwin, Marx and Freud together, and says: “My own view, realized about eight years ago, is that Darwin is the last remaining leg of the dangerous three-legged ideology that the 19th century bequeathed the 20th century.” A subtle smear, but marginally effective.
    And here, The Politically Incorrect Guide to Darwinism and Intelligent Design: Evolution and Darwinism, while favorably discussing the work of someone else, another Discoveroid writes: “Atheist materialism and its creation myth — Darwinism — were the basis for modern eugenics and were permissive and canonical, respectively, to the atheist-materialistic ideologies — Nazism and Communism — that laid waste to the 20th century.” That was a not-so-subtle smear.
    We shouldn’t be surprised by those Discoveroid articles. Consider this excerpt from the Introduction to their Wedge Strategy:
    Debunking the traditional conceptions of both God and man, thinkers such as Charles Darwin, Karl Marx, and Sigmund Freud portrayed humans not as moral and spiritual beings, but as animals or machines who inhabited a universe ruled by purely impersonal forces and whose behavior and very thoughts were dictated by the unbending forces of biology, chemistry, and environment. This materialistic conception of reality eventually infected virtually every area of our culture, from politics and economics to literature and art.
    Whether the claim involves the primitive fabrication of a direct Darwin-Marx connection, or a more sophisticated claim that “Darwinism” is somehow the foundation for the evils of communism, it’s all part of the same assault on Darwin and his theory of evolution, and ultimately on science in general.
    It’s easy to see that the logic behind this attack on Darwin is faulty, but is there any actual truth to creationist claims about Darwin and communism? Let’s consider the issues one by one:
    1. Was Charles Darwin a communist? Of course not. He was a life-long Victorian capitalist, and he lived the life of a conservative country squire. According to The Life and Death of Charles Darwin: 1809-1882:
    As Charles Darwin matured, he became independently wealthy and was able to devote his time and energies, such as they were, to those questions which he found interesting rather than on a career to support his family. Upon his father’s death, Charles Darwin inherited approximately 45,000 pounds; this amount, combined with the 13,000 pounds he received from his father upon his marriage in 1839 to his cousin Emma Wedgwood (1808-1896) and the 5,000 pound dowry that Emma Wedgwood brought into the marriage, provided Mr. and Mrs. Charles Darwin with quite a bit of capital at all times. When Charles Darwin died in 1882, he had nearly quadrupled his inheritance and his estate was estimated to be approximately 282,000 pounds. This was done by investments in railroads, for in Darwin’s time, railroads developed over the canal system in the British Isles.
    In 1882, a British pound was worth $4.87, so Darwin’s estate was then worth $1,373,340 in American money. Source for the conversion: Dollar-Pound Exchange Rate From 1791. It’s difficult to translate that into today’s dollars, but it would be at least twenty times the 1882 amount, and according to some indexes, perhaps five times more than that. However the figures are converted, Darwin was rich.
    2. Was Stalin a follower of Darwin’s work? No, he actually opposed it. This man, not Darwin, was Stalin’s biologist: Trofim Denisovich Lysenko. Stalin’s biologist was definitely an anti-Darwinian. And a crack-pot.
    3. Was Darwin’s work the origin of communism? Hardly. Communism has a long history. There are numerous passages in the bible encouraging communism. See: Is The Bible’s God a Communist?, which has examples of bible communism, with chapter and verse quotes.
    See also: Early Communism for numerous examples of pre-Darwin communistic societies and communes. And don’t overlook our own reference to the communal society established by the Mayflower passengers: Of Plymouth Plantation: “Every Man for His Own Particular”.
    4. Was Darwin’s work even remotely related to communism? Clearly not. The concepts don’t mesh; they conflict. Marxism’s maxim: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs” is pretty much the opposite of natural selection, according to which only those best adapted to survive will breed the next generation.
    5. Don’t all creationists believe in the Darwin-Marx connection? No. Some creationists, for example the Institute for Creation Research (ICR), seem to claim the opposite. ICR has this article posted at their website: Darwin’s Influence on Ruthless Laissez Faire Capitalism. Besides having a rather leftish view of the free enterprise system, the author is supremely confused in other ways. He says this:
    Darwin’s ideas played a critically important role in the development and growth, not only of Nazism and communism, but also of the ruthless form of capitalism as best illustrated by the robber barons. While it is difficult to conclude confidently that ruthless capitalism would not have blossomed as it did if Darwin had not developed his evolution theory, it is clear that if Carnegie, Rockefeller, and others had continued to embrace the unadulterated JudeoChristian worldview of their youth and had not become Darwinists, capitalism would not have become as ruthless as it did in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
    It’s rather difficult to see how Darwin can be blamed for both capitalism and communism at the same time, but then, no one ever said creationists are logically consistent.
    6. But, didn’t Darwin have some influence the views of Marx? No, the chronology is all wrong: It is beyond dispute that Marx wrote much of his work about communism before Darwin published Origin of Species, and therefore before he or the rest of the world had heard of Darwin and his theory of evolution; so Darwin had zero intellectual influence on Marx. Check this out: The Life and Work of Karl Marx, which, when combined with what we know of Darwin’s life, shows this timeline:
    1831, Darwin sails on the Beagle, returning in 1836.
    1848, Marx publishes Manifesto of the Communist Party.
    1848, Marx publishes “Demands of the Communist Party in Germany.”
    1856, Darwin starts writing Origin of Species, published in 1859.
    7. What about Marx’s later work? The only significant writing by Marx after Darwin published Origin of Species was Das Kapital. The text contains no references to Darwin or the theory of evolution.
    Well, there is one mention of Darwin in a small footnote in Marx’s final volume, but it doesn’t relate to evolution. Such footnotes are often sprinkled throughout nonsense texts to simulate the appearance of scholarship, but they’re really a form of pseudo-intellectual name-dropping. Nevertheless, we’ve actually seen a creationist claim that this footnote is the “smoking gun” that makes their case. We’ll let you decide — is this the creationists’ long-sought “proof” of a Darwin-Marx connection, or is it yet another in a long list of foolish creationist claims? We have nothing to hide, so here it is, footnote 2 in chapter IX, from this source: Theories of Surplus-Value:
    2. Ricardo’s Fundamental Principle in Assessing Economic Phenomena Is the Development of the Productive Forces. Malthus Defends the Most Reactionary Elements of the Ruling Classes. Virtual Refutation of Malthus’s Theory of Population by Darwin.
    Marx’s reference to Darwin’s refuting Malthus is most peculiar, given that Darwin credits Malthus for sparking his idea of natural selection. See: “Here, then, I had at last got a theory by which to work …”.
    So we repeat — Darwin’s theory of evolution had no influence on Marx. And of course, vice versa. Darwin’s work contains no mention of Marx or any of his writings. Nothing in Darwin’s work even hints at anything resembling communism. So there is no intellectual connection between the two.
    8. But Marx and Darwin lived at the same time! Yes, and so did Abe Lincoln (like Darwin, born 1809) and Robert E. Lee (born 1807), but they no more influenced each other’s thinking than did two later contemporaries: Idi Amin and Ronald Reagan. There is no connection between Darwin and Marx, other than that they were contemporaries. They never met or even corresponded. Well, there is one thing, and creationists try to make the most of it. They claim that Marx sent Darwin a copy of Das Capital, requested permission to dedicate it to him, and Darwin declined. Were that true, it would mean nothing, but even that tenuous “connection” appears to be mythology. See: The Book Dedication Claim, at TalkOrigins.
    Will these facts ever stop creationists from attacking science by claiming a linkage between Darwin, Marx and Stalin? No, of course not.
    http://sensuouscurmudgeon.wordpress....in-and-darwin/

    In case you missed it
    2. Was Stalin a follower of Darwin’s work? No, he actually opposed it. This man, not Darwin, was Stalin’s biologist: Trofim Denisovich Lysenko. Stalin’s biologist was definitely an anti-Darwinian.
    3. Was Darwin’s work the origin of communism? Hardly. Communism has a long history. There are numerous passages in the bible encouraging communism. See: Is The Bible’s God a Communist?, which has examples of bible communism, with chapter and verse quotes.
    Should we blame the Bible for Communism?

    Alternative view

    I believe that the evidence is stronger for those who believe the Bible's account of creation — that in the beginning God created the world and all the major types of creatures to reproduce “after their kind”.
    Not really.
    Common comments against creationists:

    We are uneducated !diots who don't have a clue what evolution is all about. They variously accuse us of being “mor0ns,” “gullible,” “dishonest,” “insane,” “opposed to science,” and similar unflattering words. And we should apologize because we don't believe in evolution?
    That wall of text didn't really advocate much for changing those assumptions.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_White
    That's your source (half of it anyway)? What a jester! As for Thomas Mitchell, who is a Methodist minister and crusader against infidelity. Did the archeologists dig him up somewhere? Frozen, perhaps since the Middle Ages?

    Monty White's organisation... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Answers_in_Genesis
    Last edited by Aeneas Veneratio; December 06, 2012 at 07:55 PM.
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  5. #5
    Irishman's Avatar Let me out of my mind
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    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    I laughed at the "Evolutionists say their theory is separate from the beginning of life, but I'm going to ignore them and base much of my criticism on that" part.

    Sheesh. A simple textbook (not written by the Catholic Church) would really help these guys.

    We are uneducated !diots who don't have a clue what evolution is all about.
    While I do not think you are an idiot, you have demonstrated a complete lack of understanding for Evolution or Science and Philosophy in general.

    Nearly every one of your "points" either has nothing to do with evolution, or is based on a misunderstanding of evolution.

    Lol, for a Copypasta, you really couldn't find anything better written or even better informed?
    Last edited by Irishman; December 06, 2012 at 08:07 PM.
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    He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action. It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.

  6. #6

    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    There are a couple of things wrong with your view on this matter, which I would like to take trouble to point out.

    First, nobody is forcing you to believe in evolution. Nobody is forcing you to believe in the law of gravity, or the fact that the earth orbits around the sun. My ancestors would be appalled by the idea that the color of the sky, rather than being a property of God is actually just a reflection of light bouncing off the atmospheric layer. But you aren't protesting the fact that the theory of evolution exists in optional courses in the school and university curriculum. As a matter of fact, as someone who works in the educational sector, and is aware of the material taught in K-12 through university, and is moreover living in a secular country where the integrity of the scientific method is not put under question on theological grounds, I see no instance where someone would be forced to learn something which contradicts their religious or personal convictions. Nobody is forced to take the biological class where evolution is taught, unless they want to pursue a career in medicine or biological science, in which case they must be aware of the fundamental material accepted in the current scientific community, whether agreeing with it or not. But then again, in such a case you're still making a choice with the career path you want to pursue. Therefore my only conclusion is that you're protesting the existence of such knowledge itself. The fact that scientists accept as common knowledge something that contradicts your personal view, invariably means that such knowledge must be disproved, and if possible, suppressed by forbidding scientists to study it and lecturers to teach it to those who are interested.

    Evolution is more than just a scientific theory, it is a concept which carries over into physics and other fields. To disprove such a concept, you will need to provide a better paradigm, which is supported by natural science, rather than nitpicking at certain parts of it and using whatever faults, whether grounded in reason or not, to discredit the entire theory. From a scientific point of view your argument holds no water, because you are not interested in advancing science in the first place, but to prevent the current scientific establishment from holding a certain concept which seems to contradict your religious doctrine. Saying that evolution is disproved on Biblical grounds is also insufficient, because there's nothing in the Genesis which explicitly refutes the scientific view of the origin of species, and moreover there are passages which can be interpreted as supporting the theory that "everything arose from its kind". The notion that God created the first man from clay can be viewed as a metaphor for something malleable and which can be altered and formed over time, much like the genetic code is through the process of natural selection occurring over many thousands of years. Your only justification lies in the authority of your particular fundamentalist, presumably American interpretation of the Bible, so even from a Christian perspective, you fail to provide a convincing argument.

    Third of all, your attempts to tie a scientific doctrine to a totalitarian ideology are laughable. If Stalin was such a doctrinaire devotee of science, then why did Stalinist Russia so fiercely repress its biological establishment when it veered off from the official party line, victims of which included many prominent geneticists such as Nikolai Vavilov? If the Soviet government was so dedicated to upholding existing scientific principles, why was it that the main scientific paradigm (in the biological sciences) adopted during the Stalinist era was the anti-scientific doctrine of Trofim Lysenko which essentially consisted of an attempt to extend Marxist dialectical materialism into the natural sciences? Fourth, Social Darwinism was a term, which as far as I know, was popularized by Marxist intellectuals to criticize Spencerian views on society, a completely different context than that used by mostly conservative Christians to argue against evolution. Fifth, let's not forget the rapturous delight a lot of American evangelicals had over Hitler in the 1930's.

    These little points, I think are sufficient to demonstrate without doubt that no reasonable person, religious or not, should accept your view on creation from the arguments you've provided. Please try a little better next time than copying and pasting a passage from a fundamentalist christian booklet.
    Last edited by Carl Jung was right; December 06, 2012 at 08:06 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    Quote Originally Posted by nerf13 View Post
    Evolutionists often claim that the theory of evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life.
    I'm glad this (and the argument that follows) is in "skim reading" range. It informs me that the author has absolutely no idea of what Evolution actually is and thus confirming what I already knew - he's talking rubbish. Saving me minutes of my life.

    Just so you know (and please, relay my thoughts to the author so he learns too) - we don't call you m0rons (why the 1337?) or !diots (seriously. Why?) because you disagree with us. We call you that because you just flat out deny facts or evidence because it disagrees with you. We don't demand you apologize for not understanding science. We demand you apologize for wasting our time by making us restate facts that you could learn so easily from something like a high school biology text book.

    I also move that we change the title of the thread. While I agree, you the creationist certainly oppose the scientific theory of evolution, you do nothing to discredit it.
    Last edited by Lazarus; December 06, 2012 at 08:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Brian de Bois-Guilbert View Post
    the Church has only improved mankind in history

    For this there are words, but none that abide by the ToS.

  8. #8
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    So, since we creationists don't understand nor know what evolution is, perhaps this is as good a time as any to tell us. Never mind that you cannot answer the very basics of where life came from or came about let's hear this knowledge that you have but we don't?

    " The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turm away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

  9. #9
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    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    So, since we creationists don't understand nor know what evolution is, perhaps this is as good a time as any to tell us.

    You've been told countless times. You simply don't care to learn or even try to understand what is repeatedly and graciously explained to you.

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  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
    I don't know if there is a God, or Heaven, or Oblivion, or even reason. I DO know that I am alive here and now, and I'm on a world full of people who are all alive and here with me. I don't know what waits us at the end of our lives, but whenever you're in need I know you'll find compassion here with me on this world. Spread the love. Whether you think God gave it to you or it was a result of evolution you should try your hardest - feel empathy at every opportunity, share charity to those who need it, and forgiveness with those that don't deserve it.

    Be compassionate. Love your fellow man.
    EXCELLENT!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    "The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turm away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
    Basics, you yourself are not enduring sound doctrine and turning your ears from the truth and unto fables.

    nerf13... any comments?
    Last edited by God-Emperor of Mankind; December 08, 2012 at 04:06 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    The irrelevant howling of two maniacs.

  12. #12
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    " The irrelevant howling of two maniacs. "

    Ferrets54,

    ma·ni·ac /ˈmānēˌak/ Noun, 1. A person exhibiting extreme symptoms of wild behavior, esp. when violent and dangerous: "a homicidal maniac". 2. An obsessive enthusiast: "a gambling maniac". Synonyms, madman - lunatic.

    Old friend, I have been called many things in my day but maniac is the first time ever. I suppose the first example of that would be when Cain killed righteous Abel out of jealousy, a symptom of the fallen nature, something that I surely can identify with before God put me on my knees to change my life around. Since then I haven't displayed any symptoms.

    " Basics I've explained the concepts to you over and over and over. Evolution makes 0 comment of where life comes from. It only explains why life is complex. If you want to learn where life came from there are a few theories - abiogenesis and exogenesis being two of the more popular ones among the scientific community. "

    Lazarus,

    And many scientists like the ones above tell us that life can only come from life meaning that all the essential parts had to be there for life to start. Countless scientists have been trying over many years to make life out of chemicals and it just hasn't happened by itself. If anything like it has happened it surely is only because of human intervention which is no different from Godly intervention yet not quite up to the same standards.

    The essential absurdity is that life began out of nothing but a big bang which produced all the chemicals necessary for evolution. No explanation as to where the bang came from. No explanation where the chemicals came from. No explanation where all the laws that constitute life came from. That is evolution for you. As the writers said it is all pure assumption based on only what can be observed today.

    But, let's put it another way. I once did not know God. My observations of Him were that He was a spaceman who had come and did what von Danniken suggested in his books. That explained lots at the time which meant I didn't have to give more thoughts about it. When my life hit an all time low, having this mysterious Bible that I never have found out whose it was or where it came from, I opened it and from that point on dreams and visions started. In one I saw Jesus Christ on the cross at Calvary as He was about to die. In another I saw my daughter just after she was born and yet I was not married then having been divorced a couple of years previously.

    Since my conversion I have witnessed many miraculous events and heard of many more but the whole point of my writing is that everything that has happened to me was in conjuction with what is written in Scripture. And when I look back to the times before that conversion I can see quite clearly that God was inherently guiding my life even then to the point that I would be converted. Evolution does not explain and cannot explain why it is that millions of others over generations have had similar experiences. So, when God says that He created all things in the six days of creation I believe Him.

  13. #13

    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    And many scientists like the ones above tell us that life can only come from life
    Well they're wrong. Life can come from non-life. See abiogenesis. I was recently reminded of the Urey-Miller experiment, an experiment conducted in which non-living chemicals were subjected to specific conditions (conditions thought to be the ones of early Earth) which interacted and became... life. Well amino acids. Which will become life later.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%...rey_experiment (credit to Border Patrol for reminding me this experiment existed)

    So there you have life coming from non-life. There's also the theory of exogenesis. The chemicals for life coming from elsewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Brian de Bois-Guilbert View Post
    the Church has only improved mankind in history

    For this there are words, but none that abide by the ToS.

  14. #14
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    " Well they're wrong. Life can come from non-life. See abiogenesis. I was recently reminded of the Urey-Miller experiment, an experiment conducted in which non-living chemicals were subjected to specific conditions (conditions thought to be the ones of early Earth) which interacted and became... life. Well amino acids. Which will become life later."

    Lazarus,

    Your big problem is just as was theirs in that new life did not happen. But look at the very experiment itself because if that is not a case of design to make something happen I don't know what is. Yes, they got certain amino acids but these acids didn't know what to do with themselves and so life didn't come about. They couldn't without the thing that all life needs to make it work, the programme of instruction called DNA. To say that eventually life would come is one enormous piece of imagination, but then that's evolution for you.

  15. #15

    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    " Well they're wrong. Life can come from non-life. See abiogenesis. I was recently reminded of the Urey-Miller experiment, an experiment conducted in which non-living chemicals were subjected to specific conditions (conditions thought to be the ones of early Earth) which interacted and became... life. Well amino acids. Which will become life later."

    Lazarus,

    Your big problem is just as was theirs in that new life did not happen. But look at the very experiment itself because if that is not a case of design to make something happen I don't know what is. Yes, they got certain amino acids but these acids didn't know what to do with themselves and so life didn't come about. They couldn't without the thing that all life needs to make it work, the programme of instruction called DNA. To say that eventually life would come is one enormous piece of imagination, but then that's evolution for you.
    No, it's not evolution. It's Abiogenesis. Completely. Different. Things. Amino Acids are the "building blocks" of life, the creation of those is an example of creating basic life.

    Do you just not listen when people explain things to you? Jesus it's been said 10 times in this thread ALONE. You refuse to allow any knowledge to be fact if it contradicts your narrow minded worldview. And honestly, I pity you. It mustn't be very fun being explained things over and over and then just plugging your fingers in your ears and going "lalalalala" until you annoy them into leaving.
    Last edited by frozenprince; December 10, 2012 at 02:40 PM.

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  16. #16

    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Evolution does not explain and cannot explain why it is that millions of others over generations have had similar experiences. So, when God says that He created all things in the six days of creation I believe Him.
    If you think of it, it may very well be that this is because it is not the aim of the theory of evolution to explain that.
    It is like if you told me that the pythagorean theorem doesn't explain why radioactivity exists.
    Anyway, evolution can, in fact, explain your visions. At least it can give a possible explanation. Wether it is right or not I cannot tell:
    Dreams are a product of evolution. Their use is to process things you've experienced, or making you train things. Dreams have been found in sleeping rats, and they dreamed the exact same thing as they did the whole day long, so that their brain would be more capable of accomplishing the same thing again. Now what have you dreamed? Of Jesus hanging at the cross? Isn't that what you experienced in your head by reading the bible? Your brain might just have been processing what you have experienced. As for the dream of your daughter's birth: Was your dream really foreseeing what actually happened, or do you just think that it is like that? I mean, infants look quite similar to each other when they are just born...

  17. #17

    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    And many scientists like the ones above tell us that life can only come from life meaning that all the essential parts had to be there for life to start. Countless scientists have been trying over many years to make life out of chemicals and it just hasn't happened by itself. If anything like it has happened it surely is only because of human intervention which is no different from Godly intervention yet not quite up to the same standards.

    The essential absurdity is that life began out of nothing but a big bang which produced all the chemicals necessary for evolution. No explanation as to where the bang came from. No explanation where the chemicals came from. No explanation where all the laws that constitute life came from. That is evolution for you. As the writers said it is all pure assumption based on only what can be observed today.

    As multiple people have pointed out evolution has NOTHING to do with the origins of life. The ideas about the origins of life are still relatively young and that particular facet of things isn't really understood.

    We could use the 'it just did/is' argument that theists use about god/s. You know the one where you say God had to make things because they can't have come about any other way but God 'just is'. I guess trying to explain why no origin story is neccessary there would probably break your argument.

    However we don't pretend to know. We admit that we're still looking, or couldn't care less as the case may be. We're actually willing to admit when we are wrong, when new evidence or understanding shows us an error in our understanding. In fact we try to prove ourselves wrong so we can better understand. Your side on the other is so afraid to be wrong that you've stagnated for thousands of years. You have no clearer understanding of anything than our ancestors who believed thunder was the sound of the gods fighting.

  18. #18

    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    Basics I've explained the concepts to you over and over and over. Evolution makes 0 comment of where life comes from. It only explains why life is complex. If you want to learn where life came from there are a few theories - abiogenesis and exogenesis being two of the more popular ones among the scientific community.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Brian de Bois-Guilbert View Post
    the Church has only improved mankind in history

    For this there are words, but none that abide by the ToS.

  19. #19
    Irishman's Avatar Let me out of my mind
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    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    It astounds me that men like that can attain PhD's in the hard sciences. One of the guys is a freakin MD with a biology BA. I really pray that nerf misquoted them, because this is just laughable.

    Section title:
    Evolution as a Religion - nothing to do with the theory of evolution
    Religion of Atheism - nothing to do with the theory of evolution
    Evolution—an Attractive Religion - nothing to do with the theory of evolution
    That leads us to the evil side of so called:“Religion evolution embraced with atheism“- nothing to do with the theory of evolution
    Trotsky … another monster brainwashed by evolution-nothing to do with the theory of evolution
    World's worst mass-murderer was influenced by Darwin at 19-nothing to do with the theory of evolution
    How did the universe come about?-nothing to do with the theory of evolution
    How could living creatures come from non-life?-nothing to do with the theory of evolution

    NONE OF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH EVOLUTION. Whether or not people use it for ill has NO BEARING on whether evolution actually took place.

    90% of this post is irrelevant garbage.
    Last edited by Irishman; December 07, 2012 at 03:18 PM.
    The flow of time is always cruel... its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it... A thing that does not change with time is a memory of younger days...

    Under the perspicacious and benevolent patronage of the great and honorable Rez and a member of S.I.N


    He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action. It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.

  20. #20

    Default Re: I,creationist,oppose/discredit evolution theory

    Thought this was total relism, realized was as least spelled correctly, couldn't be him.

    Seriously, no point in arguing with a creationist. They'll howl and howl their empty "theories" and no matter what you say or what evidence you use to back up the theory of evolution, it doesn't make any sort of difference, they never listen. Just ignore them and hope one day that light bulb will go on, I'v done this dance a couple dozen times already, no interest in doing so again.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    So, since we creationists don't understand nor know what evolution is, perhaps this is as good a time as any to tell us. Never mind that you cannot answer the very basics of where life came from or came about let's hear this knowledge that you have but we don't?

    " The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turm away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
    Yes yes yes, everything that doesn't fit into your very very narrow world view is make believe because we're all secretly servants of satan, damn you and your clever clever ways you've discovered us. Obviously the factory manager knows more about the theory of evolution than the damned Biology majors that have explained this to him at least 100 times, because he continues to use the theory incorrectly and STILL, after years of explanations, doesn't get the differences between Abiogenesis and Evolution and has them continuously explained to him. I know I'v done so about 15-16 times at the least.

    Evolution =/= Abiogenesis. They are literally separate theories. And I'v had it with you constantly using one to discredit the other.

    I'll say this ONE MORE TIME, but I know you won't listen and continue to use your own, incorrect definition of evolution.

    Evolution is the continued adaptation of a species to the environment in which it lives. No more, no less. It says nothing about where life comes from, that's Abiogenesis, a theory that is still being worked on and though it has far less evidence of it's existence than evolution, still has more SCIENTIFIC evidence behind it than creation.

    But go ahead and ignore this and preach your empty tripe, again, I'll have no part of it, thank you.
    Last edited by frozenprince; December 07, 2012 at 01:41 PM.

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