Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Proposal For More Democracy

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Kaweh's Avatar Aerani
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    2,247

    Default Proposal For More Democracy

    Ok, guys, I'm kinda sure this proposal is going to be rejected. I mean, not even a slightly change consisting of adding terms to moderator offices is going to be accepted, so probably the following proposal will make you all dropp dead, or will make you want to hang me what do I know.

    Proposer: Kaweh K. (once again)
    Supporters:

    Anyway, it's something I thought of and found interesting. I showed it to a few people, and the comments ranged from

    "stupid ****, no chance" over "I don't care" to "interesting ideas" and "I would support this"

    I don't see it being succesfull, and I stopped really working on it because I don't really have a hope that it's going to be accepted, so it's quite rough shaped.

    So here we go:

    A Democratic Cvria

    First, before even starting to explain how we could improve the Cvria, let me point out the faults of the current system:
    • The IMPERATOR has too much power in his hands. Nothing can be done without the IMPERATOR agreeing. This makes the progress of improving TWC harder, and new ideas can’t be incorporated well enough.
    • It is very unlikely that IMPERATOR or MODERATOR POSITIONS will be changed. This makes (or at least could make) the Moderators and the Imperator feeling too secure, and making them lazy. Actually, I think this is partly the case. Just look at the tribunal, where things are going on very slowly. A lazy government and a government feeling too secure is not a good government, at least not over a long period of time.
    • The community (including the Civitates) is kept UNINFORMED in a lot of cases. Let us take the arriving of some guys from OGRES as an example. We were told they are here to help TWC with the forum update. But Archer said something about “if they weren’t here TWC wouldn’t last 10 days from now”. We weren’t told why our beloved forum could end in 10 days. Archer said he would keep us uninformed and laugh at us.
    So to sum it up:
    The TWC staff feels so secure and it’s so unlikely that IMPERATOR and MODERATOR positions will be changed, that they become (or could become, or have allready partly become) lazy.

    The Civitates, who represent the whole TWC community, have not enough power. They can discuss and provide ideas, but the opinion of a few men is enough to prevent this idea from being implemented.

    Now what is my proposal?
    I present to you a system of TWC government I thought of in the last time, while getting more and more frustrated by the current system:

    The most important change would be the implementing of TWC PARTIES. A party could be formed by any Patrician, but there would be a few conditions:

    • A minimal amount of people needed to form a party (~20)
    • Only Patricians can form and be part of a party.
    There is no maximal amount of parties. The fact that a minimum of people are required and the fact that only Patricians can form a party, is enough to avoid having too much parties.

    This TWC PARTIES would get an own subforum in the CVRIA, and in that, every Party its own subforum.

    THE STRUCTURE OF A PARTY
    Once enough Patricians have decided to form a party, they vote for a HEAD OF PARTY

    This Head Of Party then sets up a COUNCIL OF PARTY.

    The Council Of Party governs the party, by telling the public what the goals of the party are, and by nominating and voting on the CANDIDATES FOR STAFF during TWC Party voting-time, the HEAD OF PARTY can VETO every decision.



    This candidates would be:
    1 candidate for the position of Imperator
    x candidates for the positions of moderators

    Nominee can be every member of the Party, including the HEAD and the COUNCIL.

    MEMBERS OF PARTY can leave the party whenever they want, and join another party if they are accepted. Once a party hasn’t the minimum of people anymore, it looses it status as a party and is removed from the Cvria (as a party).

    This way, only good parties working for good goals can survive.

    TWC Party Voting-Time
    Every 6 months, a vote will be set up. The parties can candidate for the vote.

    3 weeks before the actual voting begins:

    1) The parties present their list of candidates for the different staff positions, and also present their goals they want to reach if voted.
    2) After this 3 weeks of providing information to the community, a poll will be set up. Every Civitate can vote for the party he thinks will do the best job.
    3) The party with the most votes will be in power for a period of 6 months.
    4) The candidates of the party which won will take over the staff positions for 6 months, until the next vote.
    5) The other parties form an OPPOSITION. They do not have any administrative rights, but since they are the competitors of the reigning party, they will automatically check the actions of the reigning party, and thereby tell the community about every mistake the reigning party does.



    Benefits Of Such A System:
    • No more centralized power --> improvement of site and implementing of ideas are easier.
    • The reigning staff could be changed every 6 months, if they don’t do a good enough job--> no lazy staff, staff will try to do it’s best
    • The power moves more towards the Civitates, that’s how it should be in a Republic
    • Civitateship becomes more important, as does Patricianship. This would help to raise the quality of Civitates and Patricians.
    • The parties control themselves (Opposition controls reigning party) --> staff will be really interested in trying to make as few mistakes as possible
    • No more uninformed Civitates: it will be very hard for the reigning party to hide information, since the opposition will try to use every information against the reigning party.
    That's it. This are my thoughts. It will be rejected I know, I don't expect something else.
    I just wanted you all to know it, and to know what I imagine a democratic system to be. I would have polished it if I had hope it would be accepted, but the rough-shaped one will serve it's purpose.

    That's it. Hope it was a nice read.
    *Goes and hides from the wrath of TWC*

    K.K



    SIBLESZ·CRANDAR·SIMETRICAL​·DARTH VADER·KAWEH·RAVEN DARKWING·KALOS
    · PROUD MEMBER OF ROMA SURRECTUM II ·

  2. #2

    Default Re: Proposal For More Democracy

    This propsal would result in the curia voting perhaps 4 of the 5 moderators of each party, ignoring the last just because the others are good, resulting in a good team of moderators minus a realy bad moderator, something impossible (well...nearly impossible) in the present system.
    Second the Curia dosn't vote in the Imperator, ON chooses (I think) and in this system, neither ON or the Curia would choose, the party would...wouldn't happen
    Third: How do the other parties hold the main one in check? Give them too much power and they're stepping on the moderator's toes, too little and the main party reverts to what we have now anyway, wouldn't make a difference

  3. #3
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Silver Spring, Maryland (inside the Beltway)
    Posts
    33,698

    Default Re: Proposal For More Democracy

    You do know why the Imperator needs to okay everything? Because this is not a nation. This is an internet site oned by a company and so we have to abide by the rules of that company. The Imperator and his power are within those rules. So yes, this will be vetoed; its an example of the Curia not realising the reality that they are not governing a nation bound by nothing, but a site bound by a huge variety of rules, Terms of Service, laws, and edicts from the site owners. Its evidence that you just aren't in touch with reality.

  4. #4
    Kaweh's Avatar Aerani
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    2,247

    Default Re: Proposal For More Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by the Grim Squeaker
    You do know why the Imperator needs to okay everything? Because this is not a nation. This is an internet site oned by a company and so we have to abide by the rules of that company. The Imperator and his power are within those rules. So yes, this will be vetoed; its an example of the Curia not realising the reality that they are not governing a nation bound by nothing, but a site bound by a huge variety of rules, Terms of Service, laws, and edicts from the site owners. Its evidence that you just aren't in touch with reality.
    Ooh, I'm in touch with reality, that's why I said I know it's going to be vetoed. But this is what I imagine and I wanted you to know. A lot of people said it is impossible, but interesting.

    So it's purpose is to be interesting. Hope it was interesting for you.

    K.K

    SIBLESZ·CRANDAR·SIMETRICAL​·DARTH VADER·KAWEH·RAVEN DARKWING·KALOS
    · PROUD MEMBER OF ROMA SURRECTUM II ·

  5. #5

    Default Re: Proposal For More Democracy

    It doesn't need to be vetoed. It's logistically impossible. Until this site is owned collectively like some sort of socialist utopia, such proposals are impossible.

    This makes (or at least could make) the Moderators and the Imperator feeling too secure, and making them lazy.
    Trust me, if we were being lazy, you would know it. The site would stop working.

    Just look at the tribunal, where things are going on very slowly.
    What are you talking about? The first two cases to be raised after I got back from vacation were answered within two hours of their starting. That's about 20 times faster than the time it takes for real-world judicial systems to even recognize a case.

    Patron of Felixion, Ulyaoth, Reidy, Ran Taro and Darth Red
    Co-Founder of the House of Caesars


  6. #6

    Default Re: Proposal For More Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Justinian
    It doesn't need to be vetoed. It's logistically impossible. Until this site is owned collectively like some sort of socialist utopia, such proposals are impossible.



    Trust me, if we were being lazy, you would know it. The site would stop working.



    What are you talking about? The first two cases to be raised after I got back from vacation were answered within two hours of their starting. That's about 20 times faster than the time it takes for real-world judicial systems to even recognize a case.

    I'm with this guy, No.
    Well, if I, Belisarius, the Black Prince, and you all agree on something, I really don't think there can be any further discussion.
    - Simetrical 2009 in reply to Ferrets54

  7. #7

    Default Re: Proposal For More Democracy

    You proposed an idea you knew wasn't going to get through and you realoised the problems? Why did you do this again? COuld you not have revised it and taken out the problematic part?

  8. #8
    Kaweh's Avatar Aerani
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    2,247

    Default Re: Proposal For More Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by silver guard
    You proposed an idea you knew wasn't going to get through and you realoised the problems? Why did you do this again? COuld you not have revised it and taken out the problematic part?
    But the problematic parts are the interesting parts. Oh good god, read it, enjoy it, laugh your ass off, or try to catch me, kick my ass and hang me, do what you want. It's supposed to be an idea and interesting.

    K.K

    SIBLESZ·CRANDAR·SIMETRICAL​·DARTH VADER·KAWEH·RAVEN DARKWING·KALOS
    · PROUD MEMBER OF ROMA SURRECTUM II ·

  9. #9
    Sinuhet's Avatar Preparing for death
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    the Czech republic, EU
    Posts
    1,089

    Default Re: Proposal For More Democracy

    No. You must read some of the past discussions about the pros and cons for the democracy in this site. To help you to be more orientated - no democratical way of governemnt would be good and is not possible. On the other hand, some democratical ways of life of our Community are already implemented and are sufficient for the TWC as a whole.
    My TW games "Battle Formations" projects:
    Sinuhet's ETW Formations v2.0 – for ETW
    Sinuhet's Battle Mechanics v5.0 – for MTW2
    Sinuhet's Battle Mechanics v3.0 – for MTW2
    Sinuhet's AI Battle Formations v7.0 – for RTW 1.5


    In Patrocinivm Svb HorseArcher

  10. #10

    Default Re: Proposal For More Democracy

    And now you know why I said KK should run with the Terms thing and not this...

  11. #11
    Simetrical's Avatar Former Chief Technician
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    θ = π/0.6293, φ = π/1.293, ρ = 6,360 km
    Posts
    20,154

    Default Re: Proposal For More Democracy

    To summarize, loosely speaking: you want more influence, staff doesn't want to give up its power, staff gets the final say, your proposal fails. This thread's entire course is known, so it can be closed now. And I didn't even have to read beyond your complaining that the Imperator has too much power.

    More seriously, what are you trying to accomplish by proposing something that includes reducing imperial power? It will never happen, and everyone here knows it.
    MediaWiki developer, TWC Chief Technician
    NetHack player (nao info)


    Risen from Prey

  12. #12

    Default Re: Proposal For More Democracy

    By order of Hexagon and the Curator, this thread is closed.

    Well, if I, Belisarius, the Black Prince, and you all agree on something, I really don't think there can be any further discussion.
    - Simetrical 2009 in reply to Ferrets54

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •