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Thread: The Christian-Zionist lobby.

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  1. #1
    Rhah's Avatar S'eer of Fnords
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    Default The Christian-Zionist lobby.

    First, if anyone feels this would be more suited to the Ethos forum, please move it. As the subject involves religion and politics (or the use of one by the other) I thought the Mudpit would be the best place.

    Ok, As i'm sure most of us know, most Christians believe in the "End of the world": That happy-joy time when god and Jesus will come down from heaven and smite all of us sinners and unbelievers, have a big punch up with the Devil, and basically cause a lot of mess. There is no need to go into specifics (but if you want more details, have a read of the Wiki article , but one of the central tenets for this event to happen is for all the worlds Jews to gather in Israel, and thus these Christians have consequently become fervent supporters of Israel, and also decidedly Anti-Arab.

    Recently, these Christian-Zionists have begun to get organised as a political entity, dedicated to basically bringing about Armageddon, mainly because (quite selfishly i might add) they want to get to Heaven sooner rather than latter, and the rest of us can be damned. The most prominent group is called "Christians United For Israel" (CUFI) and is lead by Pastor John Hagee, a televangelist from Texas.

    Here's an article on their growing influence

    3,500 delegates held a major rally in Washington attended by, among others, Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas), Senators Sam Brownback (R-Kans.) and Rick Santorum (R-Penn.), Republican National Committee chairman Ken Mehlman, Israel's ambassador to the U.S., and other leading Zionists. As the Journal reports, "They see, and even sometimes seem to embrace, the notion of a global conflict between Islam and the Judeo-Christian West, just as do many zealous Muslims."
    Also see this article

    Hagee speaks simultaneously to two audiences about Iran's nuclear capabilities: one that fears a terrorist attack by Iran and another that embraces a biblically mandated apocalypse. To impress the fearful, he mimics Bush's deceptions about Iraq's capacity to attack the United States with weapons of mass destruction, Condoleezza Rice's warnings of mushroom clouds, and Dick Cheney's dissembling about an alliance between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida. Comparing Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to Hitler, Hagee argues that Iran's development of nuclear weapons must be stopped to protect America and Israel from a nuclear attack. Preying on legitimate worries about terrorism, and invoking 9/11, he vividly describes a supposed Iranian-led plan to simultaneously explode nuclear suitcase bombs in seven American cities, or to use an electromagnetic pulse device to create "an American Hiroshima."

    When addressing audiences receptive to Scriptural prophecy, however, Hagee welcomes the coming confrontation. He argues that a strike against Iran will cause Arab nations to unite under Russia's leadership, as outlined in chapters 38 and 39 of the Book of Ezekiel, leading to an "inferno [that] will explode across the Middle East, plunging the world toward Armageddon." In Hagee's telling, Israel has no choice but to strike at Iran's nuclear facilities, with or without America's help. The strike will provoke Russia -- which wants Persian Gulf oil -- to lead an army of Arab nations against Israel. Then God will wipe out all but one-sixth of the Russian-led army, as the world watches "with shock and awe," he says, lending either a divine quality to the Bush administration phrase or a Bush-like quality to God's wrath.

    But Hagee doesn't stop there. He adds that Ezekiel predicts fire "upon those who live in security in the coastlands." From this sentence, he concludes that there will be judgment upon all who stood by while the Russian-led force invaded Israel, and issues a stark warning to the United States to intervene: "Could it be that America, who refuses to defend Israel from the Russian invasion, will experience nuclear warfare on our east and west coasts?" He says yes, citing Genesis 12:3, in which God said to Israel: "I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you."

    To fill the power vacuum left by God's decimation of the Russian army, the Antichrist -- the head of the EU -- will rule "a one-world government, a one-world currency and a one-world religion" for three and a half years. (Hagee adds that "one need only be a casual observer of current events to see that all three of these things are coming into reality." The "demonic world leader" will then be confronted by a false prophet, identified by Hagee as China, at Armageddon, the Mount of Megiddo in Israel. As they prepare for the final battle, Jesus will return on a white horse and cast both villains -- and presumably any nonbelievers -- into a "lake of fire burning with brimstone," thus marking the beginning of his millennial reign.
    So influential politicians like Santorum, Brownback, Delay, Mehlman, McCain and Gingrich are actively endorsing a group, who amongst other things, want the US to strike Iran and Syria to precipitate the Apocalypse???

    Who is using who here? Obviously the Republican party want these people to vote for them, and of course their (the CUFI) aims suit the Neo-conservative's in the Republican party to a tee. I'm sure most Republicans dont genuinly want to bring about the end of the world (after all, there is probably no money in heaven) but still, giving these people political clout is probably not the best idea they've ever had.
    Last edited by Rhah; August 04, 2006 at 08:07 AM.
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  2. #2
    Rhah's Avatar S'eer of Fnords
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    Default Re: The Christian-Zionist lobby.

    Could a mod please re-locate this topic to the Ethos section?
    If it dies a death in there as well, then I wont complain.
    "Moral indignation is jealousy with a Halo" - H.G. Wells.


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    Default Re: The Christian-Zionist lobby.

    Moved to, you got it, the Ethos

  4. #4

    Default Re: The Christian-Zionist lobby.

    This is very disturbing. That is all.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Christian-Zionist lobby.

    Wait, why exactly do they want Jews in Israel? So that they're all in one place so when Jesus comes back he can kill them all there, so that way it'll save him time from going all over the world to kill them instead? Compassionate Conservatives indeed!
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  6. #6

    Default Re: The Christian-Zionist lobby.

    Wait, why exactly do they want Jews in Israel? So that they're all in one place so when Jesus comes back he can kill them all there, so that way it'll save him time from going all over the world to kill them instead? Compassionate Conservatives indeed!
    Thats what hes claiming but thats not the truth. The truth is theres a prophecy that says the end of the world will come only after the Temple of David is rebuilt in Israel.
    I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.


  7. #7
    Rhah's Avatar S'eer of Fnords
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    Default Re: The Christian-Zionist lobby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
    Thats what hes claiming but thats not the truth. The truth is theres a prophecy that says the end of the world will come only after the Temple of David is rebuilt in Israel.
    I'm not claiming that at all. I'm not going to going to go into details about revelations and all that business, because frankly I can only claim to have a passing knowledge of it. If you want to know the reasons why the Jews must gather in Israel before the end of the world, pick up the Bible and have a read, or ask a priest/pastor/vicar/whatever.
    What's important here is that THESE people believe that (or something along those lines), and they seem to be gaining a fair bit of influence in US politics. Either that, or they are just being used by the Republican party to gain more votes ( :tooth: suckers), but either way its a bad combination of radical idealists (fundamentalist Christians and Neo-conservatives)
    "Moral indignation is jealousy with a Halo" - H.G. Wells.


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  8. #8

    Default Re: The Christian-Zionist lobby.

    im surprised mroe conspiracy theorists arent playing into the israel conflict as some secret society setting up for armageddon


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  9. #9

    Default Re: The Christian-Zionist lobby.

    All of these prophecy and conspiracy stuff don't mean anything. The world will end when God wills it. End of story.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: The Christian-Zionist lobby.

    All of these prophecy and conspiracy stuff don't mean anything. The world will end when God wills it. End of story.
    They don't mean anything because they're unsubstantiated - just like your belief in God. End of story.

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  11. #11

    Default Re: The Christian-Zionist lobby.

    Does beleif require substantiation?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: The Christian-Zionist lobby.

    Does beleif require substantiation?
    Yes, otherwise its wishful thinking also known as faith.

    "Truth springs from argument amongst friends." - Hume.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: The Christian-Zionist lobby.

    Hardly surprising. The America First movement had no qualms about supporting Hitler as a means to political power, despite his persecution of the Jews. The post-'68 Democratic party had no qualms about receiving substantial monetary support from the American Communist Party, despite the latter's substantial connections with genocidal regimes in Moscow from Lenin onwards. Now several Republicans (including moderates) have no qualms about exchanging support for Christian lobbyists intent on rebuilding the Temple of David for votes in what's looking to be a tough '08 election? Welcome to the wonderful world of American politics, where the enemy of my enemy is truly my friend (Several right-wing Christian groups have declared that McCain is too moderate for them; if he's supporting them, it's certainly not because they share political views).
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