Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20605869
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2012/results
Greece has been found to be the most corrupt state in the EU, with Denmark and Finland being the least in both the EU and the world (joint with New Zealand).
Greece's position at #94 means the Greeks feel their state is more corrupt than their counterparts in Swaziland, Burkina Faso or Oman.
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
Maybe your reading comprehension isn't really up to spec, Ferrets, considering Greece hasn't been found to be the most corrupt state in the EU, but it has a public perception as being the most corrupt.
Vicarius Provinciae
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
Originally Posted by Stavroforos
"voted by its own people" doesn't count as public perception?
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Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
Exactly, it's public perception, not actual fact.
Breatannach Romanus
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
That means Greeks are harshly criticizing their own state which is converse with the assertion that they always blame others.
Quem faz injúria vil e sem razão,Com forças e poder em que está posto,Não vence; que a vitória verdadeira É saber ter justiça nua e inteira-He who, solely to oppress,Employs or martial force, or power, achieves No victory; but a true victory Is gained,when justice triumphs and prevails.
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Vicarius Provinciae
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
This poll has more to do with Greeks feeling deprimed about the economy, and blame someone else : CorruptThat means Greeks are harshly criticizing their own state which is converse with the assertion that they always blame others.UnicornPoliticians.
And everybody blame the Greek.
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« Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
The amusing thing is that everyone will run and say how corrupt our government is when corruption is a two-way street.That means Greeks are harshly criticizing their own state which is converse with the assertion that they always blame others.
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
Wouldn't go far. Greeks love to blame the Government, as far as I can tell, and the parties they don't belong to.That means Greeks are harshly criticizing their own state which is converse with the assertion that they always blame others.
Vicarius Provinciae
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
That is quite an achievement. I just have a question : Is the difference in perception of corruption between countries taken into account ?
I know it is mathematically difficult to quantify, but I bet that if Greeks could borrow enough to cover their obligations they would feel their country less corrupt even though they would really be less broke.
We should make sure we are measuring the right thing, because people sentiments are generally off from reality.
« Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
I think it's interesting an undemocratic, appointed and sometimes even heriditary legislature isn't percieved as corrupt (looking at you Britain).
Vicarius Provinciae
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
A good example on how people from these different countries might not be talking of the same corruption .
Last edited by Menelik_I; December 05, 2012 at 05:38 AM.
« Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
I don't see why. If it's within the law, and legitimate, as the House of Lords is, it's not corrupt. Furthermore they are appointed by democratic bodies, and the hereditary members cannot vote.
Until we win! Or die.
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
Unsurprising really, and also completely unimportant considering the Greek public is about as fickle as the autumn sky.
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Domesticus
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
Moral decay: Every political debate and decision is influenced (and often delayed) for the most part by in how far it might affect the next election. Reason, common sense or even decency isn't a factor any more at all. Merkel, that piece of excrement wrapped in human skin has NO opinion on ANYTHING at all, until the puplic opinion is crystal clear, at which point it also becomes her opinion. Our party system is tailored to produce zombies who make decisions about things they never, ever experienced on their own, because they climbed the party-ladder (this leads to mental decay, read: stupidity and outright idiocy). Germany has become a banana republic in essence.And what thewould that be exactly?
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Campidoctor
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
Dear gods, is no one willing to examine what they talk about?!?
IT IS NOT VOTED BY ITS OWN PEOPLE!
It is "voted" by comparing studies. For Greece, these are:
- Bertelsmann Foundation Sustainable Governance Indicators 2011
- IMD World Competitiveness Yearbook 2012
- World Economic Forum Executive Opinion Survey (EOS) 2012
- Economist Intelligence Unit Country Risk Ratings
- Global Insight Country Risk Ratings
- World Justice Project Rule of Law Index 2012
- Political Risk Services International Country Risk Guide
That took me about five minutes to find out by reading the source and data documentation.
Good job Ferrets and everyone else! No go on discussing the things you would like to discuss, instead of what's actually there to discuss.
"The cheapest form of pride however is national pride. For it reveals in the one thus afflicted the lack of individual qualities of which he could be proud, while he would not otherwise reach for what he shares with so many millions. He who possesses significant personal merits will rather recognise the defects of his own nation, as he has them constantly before his eyes, most clearly. But that poor blighter who has nothing in the world of which he can be proud, latches onto the last means of being proud, the nation to which he belongs to. Thus he recovers and is now in gratitude ready to defend with hands and feet all errors and follies which are its own."-- Arthur Schopenhauer
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
It's a combination of polls, yes, so maybe voted is the wrong word but the fact remains - the Greek people believe Greece to be the most corrupt state in the EU, so you're just picking at details here, not "what's actually there to discuss".
Campidoctor
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
I'm not picking at details, you're trying to save face. It's not a combination of polls, it's a combination of studies, of which some use surveys, others however rely on experts analysing quantitative data. You could have known all of this if you had bothered to read up on it.
EDIT The data sources package has a folder "Source descriptions" - peruse at your leisure: http://files.transparency.org/conten...ataPackage.zip
Last edited by eisenkopf; December 05, 2012 at 09:53 AM.
"The cheapest form of pride however is national pride. For it reveals in the one thus afflicted the lack of individual qualities of which he could be proud, while he would not otherwise reach for what he shares with so many millions. He who possesses significant personal merits will rather recognise the defects of his own nation, as he has them constantly before his eyes, most clearly. But that poor blighter who has nothing in the world of which he can be proud, latches onto the last means of being proud, the nation to which he belongs to. Thus he recovers and is now in gratitude ready to defend with hands and feet all errors and follies which are its own."-- Arthur Schopenhauer
Foederatus
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
What's the point in saying that?
The greeks are corrupt thus their economy is sinking, and because they are corrupt they deserve all they have. That's what people are supposed to think because of such "facts"?
Primicerius
Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
Corruption can be a very subjective and therefore widespread thing. The big corporations are accused of corruption by workers and small business', the small business' are accused of corruption by the state, the state is accused of corruption by almost everyone. It's no surprise to see then that the Greeks think they are ripping each other off. They need to find someone to blame...
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Re: Greece declared the EU's most corrupt state, voted by its own people
And I bet people are right now thinking that policemen hit you on the street if you don't hand them your money, or that if you want to buy a property you've got to bribe public servants etc etc. Things are quite different. I believe corruption refers to the politicians, not the institutions of the Greek state.
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