Preview: At the heart and ends of Catholic Europe: a journey through the Kingdoms of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland

[fightermedic]

oh my god, how did i miss this
you guys are on fire!!
*reading like a madman*

[atheniandp]

^ What he said. Great job guys!

[Outlawed]

Fantastic!
Awaiting the next one eagerly!

[CelticSlav]

Great preview!

Polak, Węgier — dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki, oba zuchy, oba żwawi, niech im Pan Bóg błogosławi!

[Radzeer]

Excellent job, can't wait to see the full mod! Very well done.

[Toxin12]

Hey guys, first I wish to say that this mod looks really awesome. Now on to a question; please forgive me, I am new to this mod. Why is Bohemia going to be included as an independent kingdom when at this time it was, firstly a duchy with a sometime titular king and second, not really any more independent than any other duchy within the Holy Roman Empire (Saxony and Bavaria ect..)? As well it would not be either for another 100 odd years, to my understanding.

[Basil 11]

Hey guys, first I wish to say that this mod looks really awesome. Now on to a question; please forgive me, I am new to this mod. Why is Bohemia going to be included as an independent kingdom when at this time it was, firstly a duchy with a sometime titular king and second, not really any more independent than any other duchy within the Holy Roman Empire (Saxony and Bavaria ect..)? As well it would not be either for another 100 odd years, to my understanding.

Last time I looked, Bohemia was set to be included as a seperate (playable) faction.

[Toxin12]

Yes that is what I mean. Why is it that way? when it was at this time neither fully autonomous nor even a full kingdom.

[Silesian_Noble]

Why is it that way?

Because a key member of DotS is Bohemian...? Anyway still among all HRE duchies the history of Bohemia was most spectacular (famous Hussite Wars) and Bohemia tended to be most autonomous. Also it was populated by Slavs and for some (mostly early) period rulled by Slavic dynasty which makes it distinct from (most) other HRE duchies (with the exception of Obodrite land). Another thing is that Bohemia suits nicely to the gameplay.

[Diodredai]

Because a key member of DotS is Bohemian...? Anyway still among all HRE duchies the history of Bohemia was most spectacular (famous Hussite Wars) and Bohemia tended to be most autonomous. Also it was populated by Slavs and for some (mostly early) period rulled by Slavic dynasty which makes it distinct from (most) other HRE duchies (with the exception of Obodrite land). Another thing is that Bohemia suits nicely to the gameplay.

My god! I never thought it would come to this...

Well first of all my dear Silesian_Noble please do not steal my job, which is as you might have guessed due to the number of jests I throw towards 'Res - making cheap Czech jokes every time I get a chance.

It is my sorrowful duty to announce that today I shan't be attacking(!) Res, but infact defending him (an action that is making my stomach curl and my head hurt).

Naturally, all of what I wrote above is a joke (or is it? ).

To come to 'Res's defense- Bohemia was a faction candidate long before he joined up (this was decided in ages past, a time when the internet bandwith did not allow adult films to be distributed online due to the shear size of them - the dark ages we old ones call it) .

Well I mean from a historical standpoint:
- Bohemia was an incredibly important regional player (you could argue about the exact impact of Bohemia during the middle ages, but suffice it to say that it was large in terms of culture [the first University in Central Europe], militarily [Hussite warfare style], and in religion [according to some scholars, and more importantly [ME!!!] the direct prelude to the Reformation (one of the most important events in Europe for the next three centuries after the DotS timeline) was Jan Hust's Hussite rebellion.

As my dear forum dwelling friend says, Bohemia isn't another German faction with a different family tree, a few tech trees and units but infact an entirely different faction with it's own units, (later religion [Hussitism]) culture, unique tech trees, and an important role to play in Central European politics.

From a strictly gameplay perspective playing as Bohemia will be an incredibly interesting experience, as you will have to contend with the Magyars, Poles and try to break free from the yoke of the Holy Roman Empire which, according to Voltaire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.

See you on the battlefield!

~Diodredai

PS: I have received word from the DotS heads that Bohemia won't be present as a faction. We are replacing it with the incredibly important faction: The natives of the Easter Islands.

As you might know, the Natives of the Easter Islands contributed immensely to European politics, theology and literature. Not a single man woman or child in Europe could deny the enourmous effect the ... umm.... oh you know those stone thingies with the stupid heads sticking from the ground: the Stonehenge ! (*Landil whispers in Diodredai's ear) WHAT?! That's in Britain? I meant the Maoi! Of course of course! How stupid of me!

We shall keep you posted on this latest change, and according to my knowledge somewhere in Prague a drunk Czech fellow by the name of Resurrection is enroute to Budapest to personally castrate me for deleting the entire Czech tech tree, traits, titles and ancillaries as well as irreversibly altering the Czech units by putting them into pink bunny costumes.

- PS2: Don't worry, none of the above mentioned factoids are true. Bohemia had no effect on Europe whatsoever. In fact, 9/10 Americans can't say on which Queen Album Bohemian Rhapsody is located!!!

[Landil]

Ah, I see but I was simply asking why that it should be included with so many history inaccuracies? Like that fact that it was a duchy with a titular king at the time not an actual kingdom, and in fact it would only have two titular kings of only normal autonomy in more than an hundred years.

We (the DotS team) have never stated that Bohemia will start out as a kingdom, quite the opposite actually, we have clearly stated that Bohemia has the following possible transitions:

Principality of Bohemia -> Kingdom of Bohemia -> Hussite

So it will start out as the Principality of Bohemia, with the possibility to form the Kingdom of Bohemia under certain circumstances and in the late period it can also change into the Hussite state, if you so choose to support the Hussite revolution.

PS: I have received word from the DotS heads that Bohemia won't be present as a faction. We are replacing it with the incredibly important faction: The natives of the Easter Islands.

As you might know, the Natives of the Easter Islands contributed immensely to European politics, theology and literature. Not a single man woman or child in Europe could deny the enourmous effect the ... umm.... oh you know those stone thingies with the stupid heads sticking from the ground: the Stonehenge ! (*Landil whispers in Diodredai's ear) WHAT?! That's in Britain? I meant the Maoi! Of course of course! How stupid of me!

True, but in the end we decided that we didn't want Easter Island in after all, because we found some ancient documents that revealed that it was the Chukchi who invaded Eastern Europe in 1223 AD, not the Mongols, and that the whole Mongol story is but a fiction created decades later by the Europeans who were a bit ashamed that they had in fact been invaded by Siberian nomads. Indeed, still today 30 Chukchi's live in Ukraine, the last remnant of the great invasion force.

[Toxin12]

I understand that they were, (more than some) autonomous, however it was not in any way full autonomy and I was just thinking that it would be better to use one of the faction slots for a kingdom that really existed at the time.
In any case I was not meaning to question anything and I will still say this mod looks awesome. I also truly appreciate the teams long and hard effort and am very much looking forward to playing it but I think it should be understood that this particular topic is not fully historic.

[Toxin12]

Was all of that directed at me?

[Diodredai]

Was all of that directed at me?

No, if you would care to read my reply you could clearly see that Silesian_Noble presumed
that one of the reasons (or at least tipped the scale in his favor) Bohemia is included in DotS is that we have a senior DotS member who happens to be from Bohemia (which would imply that the USA should get it's faction slot as well since we have Americans onboard too!)

I'm only jesting, pray that you become accustomed to my sarcastic tone on the forums.

You did however ask a question, one that I have answered in my post above.

Quote:

- Bohemia was an incredibly important regional player (you could argue about the exact impact of Bohemia during the middle ages, but suffice it to say that it was large in terms of culture [the first University in Central Europe], militarily [Hussite warfare style], and in religion [according to some scholars, and more importantly [ME!!!] the direct prelude to the Reformation (one of the most important events in Europe for the next three centuries after the DotS timeline) was Jan Hust's Hussite rebellion.

As my dear forum dwelling friend says, Bohemia isn't another German faction with a different family tree, a few tech trees and units but infact an entirely different faction with it's own units, (later religion [Hussitism]) culture, unique tech trees, and an important role to play in Central European politics.

From a strictly gameplay perspective playing as Bohemia will be an incredibly interesting experience, as you will have to contend with the Magyars, Poles and try to break free from the yoke of the Holy Roman Empire which, according to Voltaire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.

[Toxin12]

Ah, I see but I was simply asking why that it should be included with so many history inaccuracies? Like that fact that it was a duchy with a titular king at the time not an actual kingdom, and in fact it would only have two titular kings of only normal autonomy in more than an hundred years.

I do understand that one of the team may have the "Bohemicraze" but if it is to be included it would be better to be historic about it.

I thank you for your replies and appreciate your humor, from one scholar to another.

[Toxin12]

Very well, it is still unclear to me where the idea of complete autonomy came in though....lol

[Landil]

We have not chosen factions on the basis of complete autonomy, because that would be too restrictive a system to properly simulate the complex factional structures of 11th century Eurasia, instead we have gone for de facto autonomy. Bohemia, Tuscany and Lombardy all recognised the Holy Roman Emperor as their de jure overlord, but were all considered simply autonomies bodies within a larger body. Indeed, by the end and especially after the end of this mod's time-line, the various factions within the HRE became more and more de facto autonomous. Historians today are still perplexed by the fact that somehow the system actually functioned. Those three factions I mentioned, were by the start of our mod almost fully autonomous however, and were starting to become major players in their own right with their theatres and remained such for a long period with our mod's time frame. That is why we have chosen those three to be specific factions separate from the larger body of the HRE that they belonged to de jure: they were very important players within their theatres (Eastern Europe and Italy), and without them those theatres would have, in our opinion, a great void, there would be too little competition, too little division of power. The choices as such have been made both to accommodate historical accuracy (i.e. the factions being de facto autonomous historically) as well as interesting gameplay.

[Toxin12]

I understand your view but I just wanted to present my opinion, that is that in this particular time period all of those factions were just about at their height of loyalty to the emperor. Yes though I see your point and will rest my case.

[Landil]

I understand your view but I just wanted to present my opinion, that is that in this particular time period all of those factions were just about at their height of loyalty to the emperor. Yes though I see your point and will rest my case.

Height of loyalty? In 1080 AD? The Emperor was at that point in the midst of dealing with a fullfledged rebellion (The Great Saxon Revolt, part of the Investure Controversy) in which many of the Italian cities participated, mostly on the side of the rebels and as such the Pope. Tuscany was part of this rebellion, indeed, it and its Countess, Matilde di Canossa, played a central part in the revolt.

[Toxin12]

I realize that there was a rebellion led by Saxony and Bavaria. In this I was speaking about Bohemia specifically. Also when I say "All of those factions" in "This particular time" I mean in the general time not in 1080 itself.