Noob question

[13ig_VV]

My question is on wardogs. Everyonce in a while I see barbarian and other Roman civilizations using wardogs but I never do. Is there an advantage to using them? I've heard they are good for chasing down routing units but I suspect that cavalry would be better. So should I build them and, if yes, what for?

[Trajan]

No, to my knowledge, they're useless. Back in the days, I tried them out against cavalry and infantry but they couldn't do squat. They're just a waste of denari pure and simple.

[Flogger]

And they take 2 turns to build! But yeah, they're pretty useless. Except that when they chase down routing units, after one has unit has been destroyed, they will automatically chase the next nearest unit. Not like with cavalry, where you have to keep clicking all the time to tell them what to kill.

[The Black Reaper]

heh... lol wardogs were just decoys for me... i had the attack the front of the enemy unit then ran one of my infantry behind the attacked unit and had my infantry charge at em... i think most of the times i got an instant rout since they were afraid of the dogs and got attacked from behind

[Yossarian]

I modded wardogs out of my game. I never used them and they were just plain annoying when the AI used them.

[NobleNick]

...they were just plain annoying when the AI used them.

Heh, heh... So they *ARE* good for something

I used them a lot when I played my three starting Roman campaigns (Julii, Brutii and Scipii; games 1, 2 and 3, respectively, of my RTW career). I typically packed along 2 to 4 units in a full stack. My style of play evolved away from using them; but War Dogs are still, IMHO, a good unit. However, depending on how you play and which faction you are going up against, they may or may not be the best buy.

Remember that, although the initial cost and time to build a War Dog unit is higher than most other units; the upkeep of wardogs is low compared to most other units. Since upkeep is most of a unit's total lifetime cost, this makes War Dogs relatively cheap.

Something that folks sometimes overlook, is that the dogs and the dog handlers are two different things. You can keep your handlers safe behind your infantry wall and reach out and lay some serious smackdown on an enemy unit at range. Even if you lose ALL your dogs, if the handlers are safe, the dogs replenish after every fight, just like archers get their arrows back. So, if you send the dogs after an enemy light cav unit, and they basically eliminate each other, the enemy has permanently lost a cav unit. You have only lost the use of your dogs for the rest of that battle. I like to think of the actual dog as an arrow with brains... and teeth.

Also remember that War Dogs don't rout. Oh, yes, their HANDLERS may rout, and if the dogs have not been loosed already, then you are shafted; but once you set the dogs loose, it is a fearless fight to the death for them, regardless of what happens to the handlers.

War Dogs are a fear unit. When used surgically to tip the scales of enemy morale into "ROUT" territory, they are invaluable. An enemy rout usually starts with the weakest unit; and War Dogs are an excellent tool for getting these units to rout, and thereby start the routing domino effect.

Dogs can also be used simply for their attack value. However, although they are not fragile; when used in a frontal attack on fresh (or even tired) heavy infantry or fresh heavy cav, they are close to useless.

Things I **LOVED** to do with my War Dogs:

• Keep them just behind my front lines for most of the battle; for their fear bonus.
• Turn them loose on routers. They will re-target after eliminating the original routing group. They are very effective at this, and can keep literally hundreds of routers from escaping and facing me in a future battle.
• If I get out-flanked, I use 2 or more units as a last resort, to overwhelm the enemy on the flank that was caving.
• Turn them loose in frontal attacks on archers, peasants, and town watch, to kill them.
• Turn them loose on missile cav and light cav., especially light cav trying to outflank my lines, to keep them occupied (if they run) or kill them (if they don't).
• Turn 2 units of war dogs loose on enemy War Dog units (wipes out the enemy dogs and the handlers).
• Run the unit around the flanks and send the dogs into the backs of enemy infantry that has engaged my front line; just like I would with cav. The combination of the fear induced by the war dogs, coupled with the fact that the enemy is simultaneously fighting a front and rear flank attack, usually results in a rout.
• Momentarily tie up ANY enemy unit that you don't want messing with your path to victory. (e.g., keep an enemy infantry unit from moving over to bolster a caving enemy flank.)
• Hide 4 units of them in the woods; and let the enemy chase the bulk of my army past their position; then turn my army to face the enemy. As soon as the enemy engages the main army, set the dogs loose on four different "soft" targets (like Archers and Peasants) that are typically kept unprotected in the back of the enemy formation. Sheer bedlam!! The combination of the natural fear of the dogs and the added fear of multiple units emerging from hiding quickly sends the easier enemy targets into rout. And once I get 4 enemy units in rout, the rest of the enemy's morale plummets, and it is typically all over.
• I haven't done this, yet; but the campaign strategy guide for Gauls suggests that you get a unit or 2 of dogs to add to the fear inducing chant of the Druids, the flame attack (or just normal attack) of the Foresters, and the War Cry of the warbands/swordsmen. (The reason I haven't done this is that I would rather have 6 Foresters in a full stack, than 4 Foresters and 2 war dog units. The Gaul fear factor, in my current Gaul H/H campaign, is already high enough that my Chosen Swordsmen often do not have to fight at all.)

My advice to you is to experiment. If you go in with the realization that War Dogs are NOT the right tool for a frontal attack on fresh quality troops, and should only be used in sneaky, devious and underhanded ways; then you will might find them a very fun and useful unit to have along.

[aeterna789]

Well i use ware dogs alot, almost all my armies has one group of war dogs (excemption on my egyptian campain). Here is how i do it.
1. My Army forms up, skirmishers start firing
2. Enemy/Me go into close combat (wardogs at the back)
3.I choose one of the enemys battalion in the center of their lines and while the legionary cohorts fight, i let loose the dogs.
4.enemy unit routs (frightened by dogs, distraught over number of enemies, unhappy over taking casualties)
5.enemy goes down like domino (other enemy units start routing, "unhappy seeing friends routing"+the things i mentioned above.)
6.cavalry comes in and mops up the field, good doggies!

And about them being good against routing units...Only true during seige, because after i break through the walls/gates, and soliers go hand to hand, i let the dogs in, same thing as before, enemy routs but this time, they are in a constricted space (street) and not open field. The war dogs will give a clear path towards the town square. (considering there are no chariots.)

[The_Last_Spartan]

I loved war dogs. Because just say a squad of hastati has left the battle they can keep chasing them even if there masters have been killed.

[13ig_VV]

I thought they seemed pretty useless. I'm glad I didn't make them then. thanks.

[Slimshoom]

the point of them is to run down routing units and get more kills. i think they also instill fear into some units but i cant remember which, ive also used them as sort of sacrificial units to hold a flank while stronger units move in to assist. All in all, there more useful than peasants, but not much more useful.

[Gogoas]

I also took them out of the game mostly because its ridicoulous having to fight dog armies, and deploying them can get annoying (they chase units right off the map and keep going). So glad I got Terrae Expung...however its spelled

[Steuner]

Geesj... Buy Equites instead!
Wardogs are nothing, unlike good, fast and solid horseman!

[golden collini]

Last game, (Brutii) created an 'army' of gladiators, (6) and dogs, (4) and I have to say, they chewed their way through the Macedonian phalanx with no problem!

8)