Change of Palestine status in UN - France confirms it would support Palestine

[hellheaven1987]

Can we view this as a move represents EU's opinion?

France has confirmed it intends to vote for Palestinian non-member status at the United Nations later this week.

Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said France had long backed Palestinian ambitions for statehood and would vote yes "out of a concern for coherency".

The Palestinians are asking the UN General Assembly to upgrade their status from permanent observer to a "non-member observer state".

Israel and the US oppose the move, due to be voted on later this week.

They are concerned that the Palestinians are trying to seek full statehood via the UN, rather than through negotiation as set out in the 1993 Oslo peace accords under which the Palestinian Authority was established.

Washington has warned that it could hinder rather than help future dialogue.

Source

Apartly UK has not decided what it would do about Palestine, but just few days ago the British foreign minister urged US to do something meaningful about Israeli-Palestinian problem instead continues playing around. May be, just may be, we can view this means Europe finally decides to face this problem positively even it would anger Big Brother United States?

[PointOfViewGun]

If people gonna bash down people that utilize violence then they should upheld people that utilize democracy in place of it...

A poll for this thread could be nice as well.

[Plan C]

Can we view this as a move represents EU's opinion?

Alas...

[PointOfViewGun]

Britain ready to back Palestinian statehood at UN

On Monday night, the government signalled it would change tack and vote yes if the Palestinians modified their application, which is to be debated by the UN general assembly in New York later this week. As a "non-member state", Palestine would have the same status as the Vatican.

Why would Britain have such a condition for Palestinians not to pursue war-crime charges?

[Menelik_I]

Britain ready to back Palestinian statehood at UN
Why would Britain have such a condition for Palestinians not to pursue war-crime charges?

Because the idea is dumb stupid retarded, but I guess Her Majesty Government would put it nicely.

I hope this bid fails, otherwise it would be a sign that the world has gone mad, because apparently a lot people have not yet realized that asking Israel to concede everything to foster the elusive "moderate" Palestinians is not working. Israel sign Oslo, retreated from Southern Lebanon and Gaza and all it got was a rain of rockets and an Intifada.

Any Palestinian sovereignty should come from negotiation with Israel to establish clear security mechanisms, unilateral Palestinian action will only result in a mess similar to the one we got from the unilateral Israeli retreat from Gaza.

Also Isn't asking for an upgrade from the UN a sneaky way of setting the borders by bypassing the Israelis ? Last I checked the 1947 borders were cease-fire lines that are not international borders, except for the Gaza ones that Israel declared so.

Does this status PA wants to accede to gives the the right to sign military treaties ? Last thing most people want would be for Abbas to invate Iranian advisers in the West Bank, unless you like War Porn.

[hellheaven1987]

it would be a sign that the world has gone mad

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This world has gone mad long ago.

[Sir Pignans]

Because the idea is dumb stupid retarded, but I guess Her Majesty Government would put it nicely.

Not really, I would think the Palestinians would probably be able to get something in the international courts with regards to the settlement process. With regards to Abbas' position in power and his ability to hold power away from Hamas, it would probably pay off large dividends, but would also likely hamper the peace process at all. The British are looking at one picture, Abbas is looking at another one. That's my take on it at least.

I hope this bid fails, otherwise it would be a sign that the world has gone mad, because apparently a lot people have not yet realized that asking Israel to concede everything to foster the elusive "moderate" Palestinians is not working.

The Israeli's wouldn't be giving up anything (let alone 'everything'. Menelik, do you even know what this would achieve realistically? This suggestion is actually laughable. What a hyperbolic point.

Israel sign Oslo, retreated from Southern Lebanon and Gaza and all it got was a rain of rockets and an Intifada.

Israel has honoured practically none of the promises it made in the Oslo agreements.

Any Palestinian sovereignty should come from negotiation with Israel to establish clear security mechanisms, unilateral Palestinian action will only result in a mess similar to the one we got from the unilateral Israeli retreat from Gaza.

This wouldn't give the Palestinians any additional sovereignty. Though I like the way you're clearly disagreeing with Britain/Israel going to the UN in 1948 and ignoring the Palestinians. Props for that I suppose. And I'm pretty sure the unilateral retreat from Gaza would have likely decreased Israeli deaths.

Also Isn't asking for an upgrade from the UN a sneaky way of setting the borders by bypassing the Israelis ? Last I checked the 1947 borders were cease-fire lines that are not international borders, except for the Gaza ones that Israel declared so.

If Israel can up what it wants, then so too by that logic, can the Palestinians.

Does this status PA wants to accede to gives the the right to sign military treaties ? Last thing most people want would be for Abbas to invate Iranian advisers in the West Bank, unless you like War Porn.

Oh my god Menelik, this does NOTHING for them in that way. NOTHING changes. The only thing that changes is that there UN status is upgraded and they gain the ability to get international loans, and access to international courts.

[Solemn Bystander (+)]

IMO:

1.) Palestine should be recognized as a state and Palestineans outside of Israel don't have the right to come back to Israel.

1b) Jerusalem is parted - West: Israel / East: Palestinia.

2.) Israeli settlements must be demolished (the results/uproars that follow are an purely Israeli issue and their own fault)

3.) Palestine exists in the borders of 1967 without any Jewish oppressors.

4.) If Palestineans even lauchs just one (ie: "1") rocket or so into Israel, Isreal should be allowed to plaster ALL of Palestine with their artillery, jets, drones etc. as long as they want.

5.) Peace. Otherwise sanctions for both Israel and Palestine.

If not... I get an interesting news broadcast every now and then, sitting safe and sound infront of my TV...

[Menelik_I]

Israel has honoured practically none of the promises it made in the Oslo agreements.

'cause the Palestinians broke the deal.

Why don't the Israelis pull back from the West-Bank, dismantle all their settlents their and end the occupation?

They are kinda of traumatized from the Gaza pullout of 2005, when they did all of the above and got no love.

[Solemn Bystander (+)]

They are kinda of traumatized from the Gaza pullout of 2005, when they did all of the above and got no love.

Well whatever, dude.

I'm for Palestine - until Israel pulls out of the West-Bank and East-Jerusalem and demolishes all of it's settlements there and is then a state in the 1967 borders.

After that the Israelis can bomb the Palestineans - if they (the Arabs/Palestineans) attack - as much as they like... If that has happend, I'm all for Israel vengence, and will wave the Israeli flag in my street!! And I mean that!

Only my 2 cents.

[Sir Pignans]

'cause the Palestinians broke the deal.

Where? Which part did they break?

[mrmouth]

Because it is totally counterproductive. Pursuing war crimes with respect to this conflict is totally disingenuous given the flagrant nature on both sides.

Which kind of underlines Israels concerns with giving then status in the first place. It will serve as a Hamas or Islamic Jihad recruiting tool. Whether it does to the level they fear is yet to be seen. And injecting the UN further into the mix certainly doesn't benefit Israel, or really the situation as a whole.

UN>lol>cry

but just few days ago the British foreign minister urged US to do something meaningful about Israeli-Palestinian problem instead continues playing around.

That's rich. What is the EU doing?

Perhaps he missed the last few years where the US has applied significant new pressures on a few sticking points? Or does he just expect us to force a sovereign nation to capitulate on the issue of expansion? Again this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the US/Israel relationship that is always contentious - and significantly more so under Obama. There is military cooperation that often breeds intelligence cooperation - but not much else.

We need a logical partner in Israel before we can try and lift the only logical partner the Palestinians have, in Abbas, back into legitimacy, and then get to actually negotiating things. At this point everything has reset to zero.

[PointOfViewGun]

Because it is totally counterproductive. Pursuing war crimes with respect to this conflict is totally disingenuous given the flagrant nature on both sides.

Which kind of underlines Israels concerns with giving then status in the first place. It will serve as a Hamas or Islamic Jihad recruiting tool. Whether it does to the level they fear is yet to be seen. And injecting the UN further into the mix certainly doesn't benefit Israel, or really the situation as a whole.

How is it disingenuous to hold others accountable by the laws you're putting yourself under?

How the hell can this observer status be used as a recruiting tool?

[Caduet]

How the hell can this observer status be used as a recruiting tool?

This. I'm pretty sure the IDF is the greatest recruiting tool Hamas could ever wish for.

[Col. Tartleton]

This. I'm pretty sure the IDF is the greatest recruiting tool Hamas could ever wish for.

And Hamas is a great recruiting tool for Israel. Although they're conscripts.

[Caduet]

And Hamas is a great recruiting tool for Israel. Although they're conscripts.

they're conscripts.

Hamas is more like the IDF's easy source of propaganda to make killing Palestinian civilians more palatable to Western audiences.

[justicar5]

How is it disingenuous to hold others accountable by the laws you're putting yourself under?

How the hell can this observer status be used as a recruiting tool?

There are enough people on both sides who are guilty to make going for war crimes prosecutions counter productive, neither side would give up it's own, and both would then get in a shouting match demanding the others.

[PointOfViewGun]

There are enough people on both sides who are guilty to make going for war crimes prosecutions counter productive, neither side would give up it's own, and both would then get in a shouting match demanding the others.

That's a given but there are international laws for a reason. However, what's the relevance of it to Palestine's application? Why that and not anything else?

[Armenum]

So will Israel/US + a few random countries be the only ones to vote against the Palestinian move at the UN? The funny thing is that it's in Israel's interests to have Abbass's move here be successful, if they don't want to deal with a surging Hamas...

[Salah ad Din Yusuf]

So will Israel/US + a few random countries be the only ones to vote against the Palestinian move at the UN? The funny thing is that it's in Israel's interests to have Abbass's move here be successful, if they don't want to deal with a surging Hamas...

The right wing party Likud cannot be seen as "yielding" towards palestine. Elections (Am I the first one to remind this in every thread?) will be held in less than two months in Israel and the Likud's popularity will decrease. Not to mention their newly chosen MKs are even more nationalistic than the previous. Fanaticism may (had?) overcome realpolitick.