DEAR CA: Should ROME 2 (or future TW games) have larger battle maps and farther zoom range like RUSE?

[ChairmanCrassus]

So I was recently playing RUSE and was thinking that an organic zoom system like this would be really great for either Rome 2 or future Total War games. For an example of what I'm talking about, see this video that I found on Youtube:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The engine that allows this to happen in RUSE is called the IRISZOOM engine developed by Eugen Systems. Here is a description of that:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Built for Intel's latest core processors, IRISZOOM is a new engine from Eugen Systems which plunges players into the action via a new intuitive interface that allows for smooth, rapid transitions from a birds-eye view of the entire conflict, down into the heat of the battle and vice versa. This engine is primarily built for RTS games with the engine providing an aerial, smooth interaction with the gameplay unlike anything ever seen before.

I know that this engine is proprietary and that it probably couldn't be copied easily (for technical and legal reasons), but perhaps CA could come to some licensing agreement or strategic partnership with Eugene Systems. I know I would gladly pay $10-20 extra for a TW game that included this feature.

Note: Apparently there is already a way to do this in Shogun 2 as highlighted in this video:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Instructions for that *hack* here:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...-inklusive-Pro

I know (from the gameplay footage) that Rome 2 will have a full screen expandable minimap called the "tactical overview", but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about something where your minimap would be the active game itself once zooming out with your mouse wheel.

Such a system would allow for:

• better integration between the world campaign map and the tactical battle map.
• better positioning of troops with respect to map terrain.
• larger battles which is something that needs to be in place for a Victoria-era type TW game to work.
• better maneuverability for factions that rely on mobile units like horse archers so that they could better harass, ambush, and avoid being trapped at the red line.
• a BETTER VISUAL EXPERIENCE and FEELING OF CONTROL because I remember that I just loved to zoom in and out of my Ruse games.
• a better connection between sea and land units.
• more space for more realistically sized cities to exist.
• the game to feel more REALISTIC.
• more strategic elements to be introduced into TW battle gameplay such as:
  
  • line of sight,
  • the better hiding of units on the opposite side of the hill,
  • different levels of fog of war, etc.
  
  
• Obviously, I wouldn't desire gameplay to degenerate into just selecting units and attacking enemy units with no consideration for formation as this is something that separates TW from other RTS games.

Now I know it is too late for these features to be implemented in Rome 2 the way they are implemented in Ruse, but it would be nice if the "tactical overview" had the following improvements:

• Make the mouse wheel trigger the tactical overview if you zoom out enough
• Add more functionality to the tactical overview so that units may be ordered around from that height
• Allow the angle in the tactical overview to be variable and not just at a fixed position directly above at a constant angle of 90 degrees.
• Also, make the maps bigger

The inability to zoom out far enough to see the armies of both you and your enemy is something I've always HATED in TW games. I just wish CA would get the macro-gameplay right before moving on to the micro-gameplay. I want a bigger map. I want to be a general. I care much less about seeing the facial expressions of soldiers.

[TheSwordofRome]

WOW. that is probably the most beautiful game I have seen XD, and I agree with all your suggestions

[oppaiO_O]

that was awesome...it should be on the future total wars and i think they should make the battle map and the campaign map one and the same like say you zoom out far enough and you'll see the campaign map with cities, roads, ports the typical total war campaign map with giant soldiers carrying giant flags and such but then you zoom in far enough in a place you'll see the battle map kinda like that of ruse say you zoom in were one of your army is you can see your little dudes in tents and such or marching if they're moving and if you zoom in on a city you'll see the awesomeness of your city (like that one feature of rome 1 people miss) though i think this cant work on large world maps that total war delivers but rather small maps like that shown in the video but... i would like this to be in

[hellas1]

@ The O.P....

You're right man...Iris zoom is it for RTS's IMHO.

Using the old warscape engine...which is "supposed" to be "heavily" modified is a joke....milking a dead cow is what Sega Sammy & CA are doing.....

ONLY time will tell....And as I said to Sweet Jack: Show me...or else....No more marketing ploys ala Brigden.

hellas1..........Holla if you feel me....

[Kinjo]

@ The O.P....

You're right man...Iris zoom is it for RTS's IMHO.

Using the old warscape engine...which is "supposed" to be "heavily" modified is a joke....milking a dead cow is what Sega Sammy & CA are doing.....

ONLY time will tell....And as I said to Sweet Jack: Show me...or else....No more marketing ploys ala Brigden.

hellas1..........Holla if you feel me....

How is it a joke? you have already shown how much you don't know about TW5 codebase in this thread.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...3#post12211343

[hellas1]

How is it a joke? you have already shown how much you don't know about TW5 codebase in this thread.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...3#post12211343

If you'd read a bit more...You'd see what I was talking about.

Jackie boy is defending his company in an "unofficial" manner.

And you bought into it.

Case in point: BAI & CAI....still useless for all practical purposes.
He never addressed that nor the slick marketing campaign for the busted ETW pre-release either nor how Sega Sammy
didn't address issues until pressurized to do so! He was no where to be found at the time in this sub-forum.

[Tia]

If you'd read a bit more...You'd see what I was talking about.

Jackie boy is defending his company in an "unofficial" manner.

And you bought into it.

Case in point: BAI & CAI....still useless for all practical purposes.
He never addressed that nor the slick marketing campaign for the busted ETW pre-release either nor how Sega Sammy
didn't address issues until pressurized to do so! He was no where to be found at the time in this sub-forum.

BTW, my discussion with you ends right now also. Pick a fight with someone else and get a life.
hellas1

Are you insinuating that Jack was lying? Really? Tell us more about how you know the entire development cycle of a game that you didn't work on.

On topic:
I think it would be a neat idea, but Iriszoom doesn't fit the TW style of gameplay.

[General George S. Patton]

SWEET!

[Sir Winston Churchill]

No, we don't need it to get that complicated when the AI can't even handle the size we have now.

[ChairmanCrassus]

No, we don't need it to get that complicated when the AI can't even handle the size we have now.

I agree that the AI should be improved upon, but making it into more of a RUSE type game is mostly a graphical issue, apart from the lines of sight suggestion, which could be scraped. Of course this depends on how the game is programed...but CA could work around those problems.

[Fracchione]

No, we don't need it to get that complicated when the AI can't even handle the size we have now.

This.

God bless Fitzgerald Kennedy.

[ChairmanCrassus]

Bump

[BM309K58SMERCH]

Ahahahaha.. No.
I play RUSE myself, even Wargame: European Escalation. So I can see what you mean by the epicness of the IRISZOOM engine, and I felt it (and loved it) first-hand. However, I believe it is just not the right engine, doesn't quite give the Total War series type of feel. And the battles will be very huge (You ever played on 'Treason' or 'Strategists' and seen how huge that is? Even 'Blitz' is big...). Okay, the organic zooming is nice, but as a RUSE player myself, I outright disagree.

[Jester]

Ahahahaha.. No.
I play RUSE myself, even Wargame: European Escalation. So I can see what you mean by the epicness of the IRISZOOM engine, and I felt it (and loved it) first-hand. However, I believe it is just not the right engine, doesn't quite give the Total War series type of feel. And the battles will be very huge (You ever played on 'Treason' or 'Strategists' and seen how huge that is? Even 'Blitz' is big...). Okay, the organic zooming is nice, but as a RUSE player myself, I outright disagree.

This!

i play Ruse and Wargame too. they re totally different games. different from other RTS like Starcraft and different from TW.
they could add a better/higher zoom for TW but apart from that the Ruse engine wouldnt be suitable for TW, and the maps are too big for ancient/medieval warfare.

also, i like the graphics in Ruse, the world, the terrain but lets not conceal that the units are pretty ugly. they re low poly models and dont have much detail. all in all i think TW is the better looking game

[Altimis]

Never play RUSE before but after I saw the video I must agree with you!

imagine those IRISZOOM used with Total War.... amazing game!

By the way, Rome 2 adapted zoom in/out from Supreme commander if you know what I means, its good idea too.

[jaca42]

A zoom option similar to Ruse/Wargame would be excellent. I downloaded the free cam mod for shogun 2 and it works like a charm.

[Kinjo]

Typical, somebody calls you out on your BS and the best you can do is say "get a life" that's pathetic as most of your posts. Empire was released in 2009 and you are still raving about it in multiple unrelated threads and you want to tell me to get a life, how about you grow up?

As for the topic there is a tactical overview now, I have uploaded a capture but this feature can be seen in the in this trailer at about 5 minutes in. Seems like the mini map is replaced with this zoomed out feature.

http://uk.gamespot.com/total-war-rom...me-ii-6398557/

[August]

Wouldn't this system turn the game in a full-on RTS? I won't play an RTS like RUSE, it's catered to smaller scale and is all about constant production and click to kill kind of deal. But yes, 'tis pretty.

[Adreno]

i think it would be incredibly taxing to make the whole campaign map like that.. i mean the ruse maps are tiny.. the size of a village with some outlying countrysides at best..also the amount of work in just making one country would be phenomenal.. let alone an entire continent

[UsulDaNeriak]

I do not see a need for an integration of campaign-map and battle-map, just for the sake of seamless zooming. Where is the beef?