Uncontacted tribes in the 21st century

[Vítor Gaspar]

I was watching this (amazing) documentary the other day... and I can't explain how I shivered at the sight at the Indians and at the words of Brazilian government official speaking...

We still have uncontacted tribes these days. 3/4 of them are thought to live in Brazilian Amazon, and managed to avoid making contact with the Portuguese (effectively saving them from genocide and slavery) and the post-independence Brazilians. For centuries, Portugal and Brazil controlled vast regions of the continent that were simply impossible to reach, or there was simply no point going there ... but now, things are changing.

With the growth of Brazil and its expansion towards the Amazon - which was, once, an insignificant backwater region for Brazil - these uncontacted tribes are, for the first time, on the verge of meeting the European man and the western civilisation.

Brazilian government created the FUNAI (Fundação Nacional do Indio - National Indian Foundation) to help keeping those tribes uncontacted. That's their goal. As you can imagine, it's a really controversial goal and it is subject of countless disputes in Brazil.

As such, the FUNAI marks several regions of the Amazon that are off-limits for westerners and the Brazilian army and police try to enforce the statute of those regions, trying to make people stop from getting there - especially miners and loggers.

This method of operation is based on the fact that the early Portuguese/Brazilian contact (And Spanish/English/American elsewhere in the continent) with the indigenous tribes was disastrous for them. Even if we could introduce them to our society (which seems rather impossible - we don't even know their language, it has no remote relationship with Portuguese, their way of life is just the opposite of ours) they may just not be physically adapted to it. A mere flu can kill them and raze a single community in weeks.

So, it was decided the best thing to do is to keep them shut.

I can't help but agree with this... but I can't help but feel weird and all fuzzy inside while doing it. Those who have read Brave New World will notice a subtle resemblance in this story. We're watching them from afar, without wanting to interfere in their lives... looking at them in pity, and yet we're the ones living in a an artificial bubble. And every new decade, even more so.

At the same time... we belong to the same race. Yet, look at their expressions. I believe we're to them what extraterrestrials (if they exist) are to us. The "sightings" we hear about aren't much different from what is happening there.

And it is frightening.

I find the words of the official so powerful... it sounds much better in Portuguese, but it goes like this

"These are the last free men in this planet - we should do everything to keep them alive, because, ultimately, they're the last living example that we can live in another way".

Which is also so eerie and reminds me so much of Huxley's words...

What are your thoughts on this?

[Lazarus]

I'm not going to say go ahead and build a McDonalds right on top of their village, but you can't keep them hidden forever. This is the world they live in now - whether they're aware of it or not. They don't need to integrate in to our society or anything but they should be aware that it exists - because one day they will have to learn, and the longer we wait, the larger the gap between us and them gets.

On the note that they are the "last free men" while that is true and they are unburdened by being a part of a society that stretches further then the eye can see, they're also so limited in what they can accomplish. Sure they wont break their back over buying the next iWhatever that comes out and all the consumerist crap that comes with it, but they're also deprived of some conveniences. Deeper medical understanding of the human body, refrigeration, government employees... Honestly this is the sort of decision that I would say "It's even either way, so let them choose" but that's not an option.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

I'm not going to say go ahead and build a McDonalds right on top of their village, but you can't keep them hidden forever. This is the world they live in now - whether they're aware of it or not. They don't need to integrate in to our society or anything but they should be aware that it exists - because one day they will have to learn, and the longer we wait, the larger the gap between us and them gets.

On the note that they are the "last free men" while that is true and they are unburdened by being a part of a society that stretches further then the eye can see, they're also so limited in what they can accomplish. Sure they wont break their back over buying the next iWhatever that comes out and all the consumerist crap that comes with it, but they're also deprived of some conveniences. Deeper medical understanding of the human body, refrigeration, government employees... Honestly this is the sort of decision that I would say "It's even either way, so let them choose" but that's not an option.

Why will they one day have to learn? By the time every country in the world is developed, our population will be shrinking and lower than it is now. We will hopefully retreat from our current extents and let wilderness take over significant fractions of every country once again.

[Himster]

Why will they one day have to learn? By the time every country in the world is developed, our population will be shrinking and lower than it is now. We will hopefully retreat from our current extents and let wilderness take over significant fractions of every country once again.

Nah, we'll have automated farms dominating the countryside by that time. The luxury of meat will always be i n high demand and producing that humanely takes a lot of space.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Nah, we'll have automated farms dominating the countryside by that time. The luxury of meat will always be i n high demand and producing that humanely takes a lot of space.

Yeah we will have automated farms but there doesn't have to be so many of us that we need that much space. Ideally we will be mostly urbanized, with a good fraction of the country under primary production, and the rest (maybe 1/3-1/2) wilderness for us all to enjoy. I love to go trekking or caving or rock climbing more than a day's walk from the nearest other person. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[Himster]

I love to go trekking or caving or rock climbing more than a day's walk from the nearest other person. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Well in Galway you don't really have a choice do you?
The land of the tribes.

[Vítor Gaspar]

I'm not going to say go ahead and build a McDonalds right on top of their village, but you can't keep them hidden forever. This is the world they live in now - whether they're aware of it or not. They don't need to integrate in to our society or anything but they should be aware that it exists - because one day they will have to learn, and the longer we wait, the larger the gap between us and them gets.

On the note that they are the "last free men" while that is true and they are unburdened by being a part of a society that stretches further then the eye can see, they're also so limited in what they can accomplish. Sure they wont break their back over buying the next iWhatever that comes out and all the consumerist crap that comes with it, but they're also deprived of some conveniences. Deeper medical understanding of the human body, refrigeration, government employees... Honestly this is the sort of decision that I would say "It's even either way, so let them choose" but that's not an option.

Why do they need to be aware of our society? How is it their world? They know nothing of us - they can't communicate with us. There's this tribe, in the Amazon, with only 6 members left... they don't speak Portuguese. They're closed in themselves, they only speak with themselves. They'll die, because most of them are related, and inbreeding doesn't' work well for anyone. And all that because they were contacted and diseases ravaged their communities.

How can that be their world, if they can't even live in it?

This really messes up my mind. I can't make up my mind about this.

Then, there's that last paragraph of yours... looking at them, sure, they do seem to live it tough. But is it necessarily worse than our lives? Assuming from some papers I've read (I can't find them in English), Brazilian researchers from FUNAI actually believe that tribe in particular (and other uncontacted tribes) don't engage in organised warfare, for the simple fact they don't live close to any other tribe.

In other words, things like war are unknown to them, despite the fact they do have weapons (judging from the footage).

And is their existence, regardless of the material scarcity, a more unfortunate one than ours? Maybe our perception of well-being is constrained by our history and by our society. How can we apply that to someone who has never experienced such thing?

[Ulyaoth]

They will have to be met one day. Humanity will keep spreading over every inch of soil that is of any remote use to anyone. Soon enough old Americans and other rich old first worlders will be rushing down there to build condos overlooking the primitive tribes, feeling good for themselves that they're helping the poor dumb natives by giving them work when they effectively enslave them to be servants and groundskeepers.

[Copperknickers II]

Maybe there are as yet undiscovered tribes still out there. There are the Sentinelese, the most isolated people on earth, who have been unchanged for 60,000 years: if you trace our lineage back until it meets with theirs, there were still sabre-toothed lions and mammoths roaming Europe. There was an unknown tribe discovered only 25 years ago in Australia. There was another tribe in Vietnam that was only discovered because of the depths that the soldiers had to go into the jungle to hide. There are almost certainly some tribes in New Guinea uncontacted by outsiders, notwithstanding secondary contact, i.e. contact from other isolated but technically contacted tribes.

[AqD]

"These are the last free men in this planet - we should do everything to keep them alive, because, ultimately, they're the last living example that we can live in another way".

For the same reason we keep most chimps and gorilla untouched, keeping their living place like a giant zoo or lab?

They are humans and nobody should live in hole like that, unless they know what civilization is and choose to deny it.

[Menelik_I]

What are your thoughts on this?

Freaking disgusting, we are talking about people, not a new breed of wild boar.

This romanticism of indigenous living is really stupid, did nobody ever themselves why these tribes never number more than a few hundreds ? I know green natural life is trendy in westerners using IPads, but these people are underfed and sick. Dying at young age.

"These are the last free men in this planet - we should do everything to keep them alive, because, ultimately, they're the last living example that we can live in another way".

What said that ? These people have no proper food, no proper medicine and they kids die babies. The are not Monkeys !

Even if we could introduce them to our society (which seems rather impossible - we don't even know their language, it has no remote relationship with Portuguese, their way of life is just the opposite of ours)

That is not true, any Language can be learned and in the age of discoveries the Portuguese did make an habit of kidnapping people to teach Portuguese language.

they may just not be physically adapted to it. A mere flu can kill them and raze a single community in weeks

You never heard of Ebola ? It is a monkey virus that makes you cry, defecate and throw blood. It even makes blood come out of your ears and nose. That killed 10 000 people and it came from the Congo Rain Forest. Similar nasty stuff can be found inside the Amazon too, only difference is that we actually have a flu shot while we don't have for that Ebola and other nasty virus.

Give those people a Laptop and internet, plus some burgers already.

Let them be welcome in Mankind great family.

[MonkeyD]

Freaking disgusting, we are talking about people, not a new breed of wild boar.

This romanticism of indigenous living is really stupid, did nobody ever themselves why these tribes never number more than a few hundreds ? I know green natural life is trendy in westerners using IPads, but these people are underfed and sick. Dying at young age.



What said that ? These people have no proper food, no proper medicine and they kids die babies. The are not Monkeys !



That is not true, any Language can be learned and in the age of discoveries the Portuguese did make an habit of kidnapping people to teach Portuguese language.



You never heard of Ebola ? It is a monkey virus that makes you cry, defecate and throw blood. It even makes blood come out of your ears and nose. That killed 10 000 people and it came from the Congo Rain Forest. Similar nasty stuff can be found inside the Amazon too, only difference is that we actually have a flu shot while we don't have for that Ebola and other nasty virus.

Give those people a Laptop and internet, plus some burgers already.

Let them be welcome in Mankind great family.

I think what you're trying to say is that these isolated societies wouldn't benefit from staying isolated even if it meant retaining their culture which would disintegrate simply from rubbing elbows against our own. I'd like to think we'd handle finding a new group of people better than in the Age of Exploration (certainly more humanly) but I think you do have a point in that there's no way we can expose them to the modern world and not destroy their culture so really why worry about it?

[Menelik_I]

I think what you're trying to say is that these isolated societies wouldn't benefit from staying isolated even if it meant retaining their culture which would disintegrate simply from rubbing elbows against our own.

Like I said earlier : Do people ever think why these tribes are less than a few hundreds ?

Their life expectancy and their population growth rate sucks, these people's lives suck and it ain't our right to deny them the choice of something better.

I'd like to think we'd handle finding a new group of people better than in the Age of Exploration (certainly more humanly)

I was talking in term of language learning, if people could do it in 1600's we can do it now.

but I think you do have a point in that there's no way we can expose them to the modern world and not destroy their culture so really why worry about it?

Culture is not some absolute prize to be conserved just for the sake of it, it is what we human create. Are they living pieces of museum ?

Culture is about choosing and being free to choose, it is their choice to make. What does hurt you if they decide to watch Kim Kardashian and eat burgers ?

[Fluttershy]

I'm with Menelik on this... I'm horrified by how some of you are viewing these PEOPLE like they were exotic animals. Its not like these people CHOOSE to live like that, they dont even know that there's an alternative at all. I'm sure high infant mortality rates, low life expectancy and a hard life are just swell.

THese are PEOPLE, make contact. Give them THE CHOICE to join civilization if they wish to.

THis hippy nonsense about "going back to nature" is ... Why is it always well off people who spout this nonsense. I seriously doubt poor immigrant mexicans or similar cases are sitting around and saying "You know, I wish I could be more in touch with nature" or "I wish we could go back to living in mud huts and the hunter gatherer lifestyle". No, they are dreaming of nice houses, indoor heating, medicine, a computer etc. People who actually have it hard dont have a romanticized view of "The simple life" because thats a step backwards, even for them.

Give them the option, purposefully isolating them from the world is borderline criminal

[Claudius Gothicus]

Meh, leave them there... unless there's some sort of crucial natural resource in there that we, as the Modern World, need I would leave them to be.

[Lord of Lost Socks]

I'd say. Give them the choice, if they act hostile towards the ones who are there to offer a choice, then leave them. If they want to stay, then leave them. But offering the choice is the right thing to do.

[Closetu]

Leave them alone. Let them be happy at least. We've already seen this "fantastic alternative" available to them, not to mention their drug and alcohol probs.

"Native Americans rank at the bottom of nearly every social statistic: highest teen suicide rate of all minorities at 18.5%, highest rate of teen pregnancy, highest high school drop out rate at 54%, lowest per capita income, and unemployment rates between 50% to 90%."

[basics]

Miguel Relvas,

I don't know nor really care what Huxley said about these natives because as you said at sometime in the past these peoples rather than be dominated by invaders moved to places where they were safe unlike others who tried and failed to take them on like the Native American or the Inca, Aztec and Mayan.

In many instances these peoples didn't have the competition to see the advancement that densely populated areas had meaning that their lives were much better paced than were ours. Doesn't mean that in the past they never knew nor saw other men and women, just that in the course of time generations hidden away were oblivious to them except perhaps in oral legend.

I can think of a more recent example in the Japanese soldier who hid away on some island not aware that the war was long over. Imagine if he had taken a wife and bred a few generations, them still assuming the war was still ongoing becoming so isolated that they never saw another outsider, in time would they not be the same? Of course they would and any advancement would be nullified because of that.

In such cases anyone should be treated with understanding and protection if only because they have a lot of catching up to do. Now I know some might say, what if they don't want to? I would ask if they are joking because put a TV in front of anyone and the imagination takes on new meaning even with the most closseted of people. The opposite is that we too can learn from them in terms of medicine that we know nothing or little of.

[Mangalore]

Leave them alone. Let them be happy at least. We've already seen this "fantastic alternative" available to them, not to mention their drug and alcohol probs.

"Native Americans rank at the bottom of nearly every social statistic: highest teen suicide rate of all minorities at 18.5%, highest rate of teen pregnancy, highest high school drop out rate at 54%, lowest per capita income, and unemployment rates between 50% to 90%."

The bottom of our society still allows a life expectancy, medical care and living standard many times what a stone age tribe in a jungle could ever hope for. The problems you speak of are based on our inherent standards, not on the absolute scale of different human societies. What you call the bottom of society is barely reachable by the middle class in some African regions.

Doesn't mean we should not strive to fix it but it's like not giving someone medical treatment because he might get a morphin addict. Of course, being a morphine addict is bad, but he has bigger problems than that!

The problem is really how to go about. How can we make their immune systems capable to deal with our concentrated mass of globally evolved diseases, how can we ensure they don't get stressed out by the revelation of the big world out there, etc.

[Vaskill]

Leave them alone.

Pretty much this, what have they done to any of us? Absolutely nothing.