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  1. #1
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    http://news.yahoo.com/rebels-congo-r...141939903.html

    GOMA, Congo (AP) — A Rwandan-backed rebel group advanced to within 3 kilometers (1.8 miles) of Goma, a crucial provincial capital in eastern Congo, marking the first time that rebels have come this close since 2008.
    Congolese army spokesman Col. Olivier Hamuli said the fighting has been going on since 6 a.m. Sunday and the front line has moved to just a few kilometers (miles) outside the city. After more than nine hours of violent clashes the two sides took a break, with M23 rebels establishing a checkpoint just 100 meters (yards) away from one held by the military in the village of Munigi, exactly 3 kilometers (1.8 miles) outside the Goma city line.
    Contacted by telephone on the front line, M23 rebel spokesman Col. Vianney Kazarama said the group will spend the night in Goma.
    "We are about to take the town. We will spend the night in Goma tonight," said Kazarama. "We are confident that we can take Goma and then our next step will be to take Bukavu," he said mentioning the capital of the next province to the south.
    The M23 rebel group is made up of soldiers from a now-defunct rebel army, the National Congress for the Defense of the People, or CNDP, a group made-up primarily of fighters from the Tutsi ethnic group, the ethnicity that was targeted in Rwanda's 1994 genocide. In 2008, the CNDP led by Rwandan commando Gen. Laurent Nkunda marched his soldiers to the doorstep of Goma, abruptly stopping just before taking the city.
    In the negotiations that followed and which culminated in a March 23, 2009 peace deal, the CNDP agreed to disband and their fighters joined the national army of Congo. They did not pick up their arms again until this spring, when hundreds of ex-CNDP fighters defected from the army in April, claiming that the Congolese government had failed to uphold their end of the 2009 agreement.
    Reports, including one by the United Nations Group of Experts, have shown that M23 is actively being backed by Rwanda and the new rebellion is likely linked to the fight to control Congo's rich mineral wealth.
    The latest fighting broke out Thursday and led to the deaths of 151 rebels and two soldiers. On Saturday U.N. attack helicopters targeted M23 positions in eastern Congo.
    Also on Saturday, United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon had called Rwandan President Paul Kagame "to request that he use his influence on the M23 to help calm the situation and restrain M23 from continuing their attack," according to peacekeeping chief Herve Ladsous who spoke at the U.N. headquarters in New York on Saturday.
    North Kivu governor Julien Paluku said Saturday that the Congolese army had earlier retreated from Kibumba, which is 30 kilometers (19 miles) north of Goma, after thousands of Rwandans, who he says were backing the rebels, attacked early Saturday.
    "Rwandan forces bombarded our positions in Kibumba since early this morning and an estimated 3,500 crossed the border to attack us," he said Saturday.
    In downtown Goma, panicked residents had come out to try to get more information on what was happening. A 45-year-old mother of five said that she has nowhere to go.
    "I don't really know what is happening, I've seen soldiers and tanks in the streets and that scares me," said Imaculee Kahindo. Asked if she planned to leave the city, she said: "What can we do? I will probably hide in my house with my children."
    Hamuli, the spokesman for the Congolese army, denied reports that soldiers were fleeing.
    In 2008 as Nkunda's CNDP rebels amassed at the gates of Goma, reporters inside the city were able to see Congolese soldiers running in the opposite direction, after having abandoned their posts. The Congolese army is notoriously dysfunctional with soldiers paid only small amounts, making it difficult to secure their loyalties during heavy fighting.
    "We are fighting 3 kilometers from Goma, just past the airport. And our troops are strong enough to resist the rebels," said Hamuli. "We won't let the M23 march into our town," he said. Asked if his troops were fleeing, he added: "These are false rumors. We are not going anywhere."
    U.N. peacekeeping chief Ladsous said that the rebels were very well-equipped, including with night vision equipment allowing them to fight at night.
    Reports by United Nations experts have accused Rwanda, as well as Uganda, of supporting the rebels. Both countries strongly deny any involvement and Uganda said if the charges continue it will pull its peacekeeping troops out of Somalia, where they are playing an important role in pushing out the Islamist extremist rebels.
    The U.N. Security Council called for an immediate stop to the violence following a two-hour, closed-door emergency meeting. The council said it would add sanctions against M23 rebels and demanded that rebels immediately stop their advance toward the provincial capital of Goma.
    "We must stop the M23" because Goma's fall "would, inevitably, turn into a humanitarian crisis," said France's U.N. Ambassador, Gerard Araud. He added that U.N. officials would decide in the coming days which M23 leaders to target for additional sanctions.

    M23 rebels are backed by Rwanda and probably Uganda.According to some sources Rwandan soldiers have invaded eastern Congo and help rebels who have advanced on the outskirts of Goma, a city of 400.000 people.The goal of this campaign is clear:To control one of the most rich areas in the world on natural resources.

    Under different circumstances Kagame's regime would have being sancioned and isolated because of this policy.But nothing is heared in the west and the UN is suprisingly soft in how it treats Kagame.Not only it doesnt condemn the interference in Congos territory but it calls Kagame to "use its influence" in order to halt the rebel advance(without mentioning retreat from the territory that rebels have gained)

    Why this happens?The answer is clear:Rwanda plays the card of the victim.Everyone who criticises Kagame is condemned as a sympathiser of the people who commited the genocide of the 90's.Having generated sympathy from these actions now he uses that sympathy in order to invade Congo and loot the area unpunished.Rwanda has soldiers in Somalia fighting Al Shadaab and is considered one of Washingtons allies in the area

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    Menelik_I's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    This has been going on since 1997, but there are 2 things that you are forgetting : (1) The Hutu militias who took part in the Rwandan genocide are in fact in Congo and (2) the Congolese president is in collusion with Kagame against his own citizens.

    The way things are developing the plan seems to be destabilize the region to make a Rwandan annexation palatable for stability sake.

    The Congolese President sabotage his own country war effort against rebels and Rwanda, while Rwanda refuses any Congolese proposal for join military action against the Hutu militias. Plus everyone gets filthy rich with mining : Rwandan Army, Congolese Army generals, rebels and Congolese opposition politicians getting pay off for not making noise

    It is not just a question of "if only the international community did something", Congo is a mess, so no end in sight for the foreseeable future.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

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    Vítor Gaspar's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    So where is Angola in this?

    I smell a blood-lusty, human rights abuser, Portuguese-speaking, communist-turned-capitalist dictator in this. I am learning that whenever there's in Congo, Angola has to be in there. Either supporting troops or just outright sending "anonymous" soldiers to cause havoc.

    Everything is fair if Eduardo dos Santos makes a buck.

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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguel Relvas View Post
    So where is Angola in this?

    I smell a blood-lusty, human rights abuser, Portuguese-speaking, communist-turned-capitalist dictator in this. I am learning that whenever there's in Congo, Angola has to be in there. Either supporting troops or just outright sending "anonymous" soldiers to cause havoc.
    Jose Eduardo dos Santos is in the business of winning wars, the whole illegal mining while raping the women is not his style.

    There is a lot of opposition in Angola for sending troops in Congo, which is even more complicated now because Parliament has to approve. So it is probably going to be restricted to either training, weapons or special forces from the Presidential guard.

    In the past Angola sent everything from fighter jets to thousand of troops, but the public is not fond of military adventures. I personally would support Angolan intervention, but I am just one dude whose vote doesn't count anyway.

    Also the Congolese themselves are not serious about winning, so we can't help them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguel Relvas View Post
    SEverything is fair if Eduardo dos Santos makes a buck.
    I heard He bough half of Portugal with a dime ... as an Angolan I feel proud that we are colonizing our former colonizers. Lets be one dictatorship under Jose Eduardo dos Santos lol
    Last edited by Menelik_I; November 18, 2012 at 04:02 PM.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

  5. #5

    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    Eastern Congo? Kivuland? You guys cite mineral richess: How mineral rich is Kivuland? I thought Katanga was where all the richess and were.
    Have you ever seen Dirty Harry Guns and money are best diplomacy
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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishoss View Post
    Eastern Congo? Kivuland? You guys cite mineral richess: How mineral rich is Kivuland? I thought Katanga was where all the richess and were.
    The whole country is full of Goodness.

    Don't ask me how I know. #tired of hearing congoleses blabber about how rich their pathetic country is

    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

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    Vítor Gaspar's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    Jose Eduardo dos Santos is in the business of winning wars, the whole illegal mining while raping the women is not his style.

    There is a lot of opposition in Angola for sending troops in Congo, which is even more complicated now because Parliament has to approve. So it is probably going to be restricted to either training, weapons or special forces from the Presidential guard.

    In the past Angola sent everything from fighter jets to thousand of troops, but the public is not fond of military adventures. I personally would support Angolan intervention, but I am just one dude whose vote doesn't count anyway.
    Parliament? The public opinion? What is that Angola you're talking about anyone? I am talking about the country with one of the lowest life expectancies in the world, and one of the poorest in Africa, despite ranking among the top tier in the continent when it comes to GDP.

    You know, that despotic joke of a country, with a make-believe Democracy that only Portugal, China and Brazil (because the ruling elite of those countries have interests in Angola) seem to acknowledge, well, that country, at the end of the day, is just another piss-poor, sad African country, explored by its rulers - perhaps even worse than back in Portuguese days, which is the saddest thing I can think of that country, because I have met Angolans which were among the kindest persons I ever met, despite their poverty back home.

    And to think Angola has everything to be the leading African country... perhaps even the world, if things were different.

    Ultimately, Angola is just yet another African country - only it has an European-grade army, which makes things even sadder

    I heard He bough half of Portugal with a dime ... as an Angolan I feel proud that we are colonizing our former colonizers. Lets be one dictatorship under Jose Eduardo dos Santos lol
    Yes, you should feel proud about Dos Sants (not Angola) is buying a shady Portuguese bank, that was saved with public funds, after it entered into bankruptcy. Or whatever you name he's buying.

    You should feel particularly proud about having the President of one of the poorest countries on Earth (where a significant majority earns less than 1€ a day) buying assets in one of the richest countries on Earth (Portugal, despite all its problems, is still a top-tier developed country - currently, don't come here preaching about the whole Eurocrisis situation, for what I'm saying that is irrelevant).

    P.S - You're white, drop it. If I could number the number of whites that have been killed in Angola because they have interfered with Eduardo dos Santos' deals. You're almost as Angolan as I am, only you were born there. You barely speak Portuguese!

    P.S 2 - Miss that part about "lets be one dictatorship under Dos Santos"... for a moment I thought you were condoning him. It seems we're in agreement at least regarding him...
    Last edited by Vítor Gaspar; November 18, 2012 at 04:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguel Relvas View Post
    Parliament? The public opinion? What is that Angola you're talking about anyone? I am talking about the country with one of the lowest life expectancies in the world, and one of the poorest in Africa, despite ranking among the top tier in the continent when it comes to GDP.
    No joke, Parliament has to approve troops movements to another country, it is in the new constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguel Relvas View Post
    Ultimately, Angola is just yet another African country - only it has an European-grade army, which makes things even sadder
    We did send a whole warship ship to Guinee Bissau last year ... Dos Santos sometimes get megalomaniac with state money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguel Relvas View Post
    P.S - You're white, drop it. If I could number the number of whites that have been killed in Angola because they have interfered with Eduardo dos Santos' deals. You're almost as Angolan as I am, only you were born there. You barely speak Portuguese!
    There as many that support him too, so it is not really about skin color. The ministry of finance is white, thankfully we don't have racist problems to the scale of South Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguel Relvas View Post
    P.S 2 - Miss that part about "lets be one dictatorship under Dos Santos"... for a moment I thought you were condoning him. It seems we're in agreement at least regarding him...
    I don't like him and how they are milking the country, but I appreciate the competence in putting an end to the civil war and keep order. If we are lucky we could make a clean transition to Democracy in a few years after He dies of natural cause.

    I am not very fond of the Congo plan of ending a dictatorship just to sink the country in a bloody civil war.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    Na, just another dirty war that UN failed to intervene. At April I had some hope that UN finally would not suck again when 20k blue helmets were concentrate on Goma, but apartly that was just another illusion.

    Another old wine in new bottle, next news please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Na, just another dirty war that UN failed to intervene. At April I had some hope that UN finally would not suck again when 20k blue helmets were concentrate on Goma, but apartly that was just another illusion.

    Another old wine in new bottle, next news please.
    If Congo is rich why can't they just hire Americans? Their mercenaries and trainings have been proved quite effective in Mexico.

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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    Quote Originally Posted by aqd View Post
    If Congo is rich why can't they just hire Americans? Their mercenaries and trainings have been proved quite effective in Mexico.
    You are joking right? Do you even know the connection between white mercenaries and Congo Crisis?

    However I have no doubt that UN is providing security analysis and military training program to Congo government under the contracts with PMCs, which saw a sharp employment under UN for past five years. We already had a thread about it few months ago, by the way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    It is a hellhole just like Palestine, and irony this hellhole can be avoid if not because the lazy and paranoid nature of human beings.

    Sometimes I pray Mongols would just come back and destroy this messy world.
    Last edited by hellheaven1987; November 18, 2012 at 06:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    It is a hellhole just like Palestine, and irony this hellhole can be avoid if not because the lazy and paranoid nature of human beings.

    Sometimes I pray Mongols would just come back and destroy this messy world.
    Why? We don't have these problems in actual civilized countries and regions anymore.
    Swear filters are for sites run by immature children.

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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric View Post
    Why? We don't have these problems in actual civilized countries and regions anymore.
    I assume that list of civilized countries does not include Mexico and Israel?
    Last edited by hellheaven1987; November 20, 2012 at 12:07 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

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    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    It seems that rebels have entered Goma and control parts of the city.The congolese army retreats and the UN is a joke

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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    It seems that rebels have entered Goma and control parts of the city.The congolese army retreats and the UN is a joke
    The Congolese army is also a joke, don't be stingy with fail. But to be fair UN soldiers are too busy raping children to fight, can't rush sexual assault.

    There is but one plan for peace in Congo : The international community should pay and support Angola to march its Armies up the border and kick that Rwandan-Ugandan scum coalition back to their small pathetic countries.

    If all the money that was invested and support in UN peacekeeping was given to Angola this affair would be over a long time ago, Angola has tanks, helicopters and jets, with all the knowledge to win war.

    What the UN is doing in Congo is guard a rapefield and call it peacekeeping.
    Last edited by Menelik_I; November 20, 2012 at 06:03 AM.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    I am under the impression that Angola's military is tied down somewhere else due to AU peacekeeping.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    I am under the impression that Angola's military is tied down somewhere else due to AU peacekeeping.
    Angola just finished its a Angolan Military Mission in Guinea-Bissau (MISSANG) which involved the warship MdG Rio M'brige and about 1000 soldiers and policemen.

    There were rumors of Angolan troops going to Somalia but nobody wants to get involved with terrorists, so I am pretty sure we are free.

    An operation if it happens would probably involved Rapid Intervention Police and Special forces going to Congo by plane and air-support. Which is what Angola did last time around.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

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    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    I dont know for Angola but Rwanda and Uganda have forces in Somalia and this is the key reason why you dont hear any condemnation by the west.Rebels alone can not capture a city of 500.000.But Rwanda has sent forces to help rebels and fight alongside M23.If rebels capture Bukavu, an even bigger city this will mean that we could return to a situation similar to second congo war

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    Default Re: Another dirty war:Eastern Congo

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    I dont know for Angola but Rwanda and Uganda have forces in Somalia and this is the key reason why you dont hear any condemnation by the west.Rebels alone can not capture a city of 500.000.But Rwanda has sent forces to help rebels and fight alongside M23.If rebels capture Bukavu, an even bigger city this will mean that we could return to a situation similar to second congo war
    Both US and several European governments already cut the aid to Rwanda and Uganda, and British PM is facing an investigation for his recent role of reopening aids to Rwanda now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

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