Did the Holocaust really happen?

[Lazarus]

Alright, we all know it's been heading in this direction for a while and I'm sick of waiting for it to be over so I'm going to kick-start the discussion and if nothing else perhaps we'll finally confine all the crazy regarding the holocaust in to one thread.

Did it really happen?

As a claim, the burden is on those who believe the Holocaust happened to provide evidence. So for those of you who are going to post and say the holocaust happened, make sure you have some evidence - pictures are acceptable but it has to support what you're saying. I don't want to see anyone talking about gas chambers and then posting pictures of firing squads. Where ever possible, please also provide context for your picture. Date, location, etc.

Deniers, your on the defense. Your sole job is to refute the evidence provided in this thread. Now I'm going to post a couple of handy definitions that illustrate the difference between refuting something and denying it. The only way for you to win is by refuting. Nothing else.

Lets keep it ordered, lets keep it civil, lets get it over with.

re·fute/riˈfyo͞ot/

Verb:

• Prove (a statement or theory) to be wrong or false; disprove.
• Prove that (someone) is wrong.

de·ny/diˈnī/

Verb:

• Refuse to admit the truth or existence of (something).
• Refuse to give (something requested or desired) to (someone).

NOTE: Mods, I was very careful to read the ToS and I saw nothing the prohibited this discussion, except possibly the "other" clause. If you feel this conversation will be detrimental to the operation of the site, please lock the thread and discuss any issue with me.

[Larkin]

Is this really happening? Like seriously? The millions of eyewitness accounts, official government records, general disappearance of 12 million people, that's all just gonna be brushed aside? Or are you just playing Devil's Advocate?

I can't believe people deny the Holocaust. Especially when they rest on "evidence" like there being no found traces of underground concrete or whatever at Treblinka in that survey. I've been to Auschwitz, and there is no way in hell that is made up.

[Lazarus]

Or are you just playing Devil's Advocate?

Guilty as charged. I'm going to attempt to maintain a neutral position through the discussion which is why I clearly outlined the rules of how debates actually work for the deniers and those who say it did happen - so if anyone has any problem we can look back at how debates are conducted and sort the problem out as a way of preventing this thread from devolving in to a quote war.

[Simon Cashmere]

There is an enormous amount of footage that was taken at the time:

WARNING DISTURBING FOOTAGE CLICK AT OWN RISK:



Huge amounts of reports done by the Allies about what they found. In addition, huge amounts of German records showing exactly what the Third Reich had done. The SS had its own Concentration Camp division, and has service records showing that huge numbers of the SS were diverted to man the concentration camps. That would not be possible if it did not happen.

The suppliers of the materials to make the camps and the companies that used slave labour from the camp have reached settlements with the survivors, which again, if this never happened, they would not have done. Krupp, Siemans, Bayer, Volkswagen...to name a few.

Here's an article which summarises some of it:

http://www.adl.org/braun/dim_13_2_forgetting.asp

My former landlady was in a concentration camp, and had the badly inked tattoo number on her arm. Now unless she decided to get that for some street cred, I'd say she was legit. She was kept alive as a seamstress and made SS uniforms while inside until the end of the war.

[frozenprince]

Also noted, should talk to a mod about moving this to the Alternate history sub-forum of the VV, since this isn't really a political, but an "idiocy" issue dealing with a mainly historical, A-political (cept to Neo-Nazi's) event.

Though points for taking the initiative and not waiting for one of the crazies to make this thread.

OT: Yes, of course the holocaust happened, there is literally more evidence for it's occurrence than any other event in all of human history. To deny it did happen isn't valid history, but history laced with a Nazi ideologues political agenda.

[Rijul.J.Ballal]

Even the government of Iran which does not generally agree on the holocaust, says nothing about its former diplomats in the Pairs, who, not only say the holocaust happened but also claim to have helped some Jews escape. And as it turns out there are many Jews who claim to been helped by the former Iranian diplomats in Paris. I cant quite remember a source on the internet to support my claim, but the book ''The Ayatollah begs to differ'' written by Hooman Majd [son of a Ayatollah] talks about this.
ps: i am not being anti-Iranian by the way.

[Knight of Heaven]

I visited Auchwitz a few years back.
Want proof go there, look for it.

[Garbarsardar]

Are you under the delusion that Jews exist? That is a common misconception fostered by vicious liars.

DISMANTLING THE ARGUMENTS FOR THE EXISTENCE OF JEWS


1. HISTORICAL REFERENCES TO JEWS

Some will argue that Jews exist on the basis of historical records. Such records do in fact go back thousands of years. Now ask yourself: who wrote most of these records? The Jews themselves! Of course you can't believe them when they tell you they exist! They obviously have some unscrupulous interest in convincing you of their existence. What else could account for it?


2. JEWISH CULTURE AND RELIGION

"Just look at the Jewish way of life", someone proposes. Bah! This argument is clearly a red herring. We are not concerned about the Jewish way of life; we are looking for Jewish people. The existence of the former is a separate question from the existence of the latter!


3. EYEWITNESSES WHO CLAIM TO HAVE SEEN JEWS

Some untrustworthy witnesses claim to have seen, spoken with, or even been married to Jewish people. We have only to ask, How much did the Great Jewish Conspiracy pay them to say this? It must be understood, a person who makes an outrageous statement like this is no different from one who claims to hear the voices of loved ones from thousands of miles away.(see: argument against the existence of telephones)


4. PEOPLE WHO CLAIM TO BE JEWISH

It is reported that a small percentage of Jewish people actually claim to exist. This is, by far, the cleverest and most insidious lie of anything in the repertoire of the Jewish Conspiracy. Of course they claim to exist! What else did you expect?


A PROOF THAT JEWS DON'T EXIST: Kosher hot dogs. You can't live on that stuff.

THEREFORE, the real reason the Holocaust didn't happen is that JEWS DON'T EXIST!!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.revisionism.nl/Jews/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm

EDIT: I have yet to see any evidence about the existence of Jews in this thread-Garb.

[Stavroforos]

Indeed Garb, I have yet to see any evidence of Jews existing, therefore if the Jews don't exist, how could the Holocaust have happened? I mean, I think people who identify themselves as Jews can't really prove that they are, and are instead a very well organized group of people who pretend to be part of a population which is supposedly universally loved and has been well treated throughout history.

[Garbarsardar]

Indeed Garb, I have yet to see any evidence of Jews existing, therefore if the Jews don't exist, how could the Holocaust have happened? I mean, I think people who identify themselves as Jews can't really prove that they are, and are instead a very well organized group of people who pretend to be part of a population which is supposedly universally loved and has been well treated throughout history.

They are insidious, that much is certain. The Holocaust was the only way to cover up the fact of their non-existence by means of a fabricated extermination.

A secondary proof is of course the fact that there were people claiming to be "holocaust survivors". Anyone with a rudimentary grasp of etymology would immediately see that a "holo-caust" cannot have survivors. It's either a holocaust (total purge) or nothing.

[Stavroforos]

They are insidious, that much is certain. The Holocaust was the only way to cover up the fact of their non-existence by means of a fabricated extermination.

A secondary proof is of course the fact that there were people claiming to be "holocaust survivors". Anyone with a rudimentary grasp of etymology would immediately see that a "holo-caust" cannot have survivors. It's either a holocaust (total purge) or nothing.

That is the most clever part of their insidious scheme, that when you tell them that it was either everyone or no one, they can back out and say that "but of course we can't be Jews, they don't exist!"

[Éorl]

I don't believe that threads like this exist. I have yet to see any proof that they do.

[Mangalore]

As a German I always get the impression holocaust deniers want to make my grandfathers look bad...

[Vizvii]

As a German I always get the impression holocaust deniers want to make my grandfathers look bad...

As a German you are not allowed to mention the word Holocaust.

[Lordreaven]

I visited Auchwitz a few years back.
Want proof go there, look for it.


Only an ignorant fool would deny that the Holocoust ever happen.
Not tomention Nazi plans where pretty straight foward, specialy near the end of the war.


Your problem go educate yourself.

Those ovens were just for baking Human size and Shape bread for......uh....Giants?

And the Gas Chambers were designed to dispense laughing gas for the..... volunteers?

I'm sorry, even if I tried as hard as humanly possible I don't think I would be able to refute any claims in this matter without resorting to blind denial.. Way to much evidence to deny it. So it amazes me how people are able to do it.

[Mangalore]

As a German you are not allowed to mention the word Holocaust.

Eh? You mean the filing error in European demographics between 1939-1945?

[Elemental]

The numbers on people killed are certainly inflated. I think that more jews were gunned down into pits on the east front then the machine gassing in the camps. No historian belives 4 million were killed in Auschwitz any more.

I dont understand why so many are afraid of the revisionist. Truth can stand on its own.

[Menelik_I]

I never seen a that anyone who posted in this thread exists as a human entity.

[mishkin]

The numbers on people killed are certainly inflated. I think that more jews were gunned down into pits on the east front then the machine gassing in the camps. No historian belives 4 million were killed in Auschwitz any more.

You mean in Auschwitz and the other nazi extermination camps etc?
Any historian in some serious university/institution would say that the numbers have been inflated?

Edit: this thread seems a trap for "soemone". No offence, but perhaps this "perspective" is wrong.

[Dr. Croccer]

They all got tyfoid.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

From bullets.