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Thread: Hamas fires missiles, Israel conducts airstrikes. Israel-Gaza thread.

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    Default Hamas fires missiles, Israel conducts airstrikes. Israel-Gaza thread.


    Ahmad Jabari - killed in Israeli airstrike

    GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Hamas officials in the Gaza Strip say an Israeli airstrike has killed the commander of its military wing.
    Ahmed Jabari becomes the most senior Hamas official to be killed since an Israeli invasion of Gaza four years ago. Jabari has long topped Israel's most-wanted list.

    Witnesses say Jabari was traveling in his vehicle in Gaza City when his car exploded.

    Israeli officials had said in recent days that they were considering assassinating top Hamas officials following a wave of heavy rocket fire from the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.

    Israeli diplomats have put foreign leaders on notice that their country will consider its historic peace accords with the Palestinians null and void if they ask the United Nations for a state, according to a document obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press.
    The list of Foreign Ministry talking points also instructs diplomats to tell world leaders that Israel will retaliate against the move, without specifying details.

    The Palestinians, frustrated with a four-year impasse in peace efforts, say they will ask the U.N. General Assembly on Nov. 29 to give them upgraded observer status. A draft resolution floated by the Palestinians seeks international recognition of their state in the West Bank, east Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, territories captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war.

    Israel and the U.S. strongly oppose the effort, saying all matters must be resolved through negotiations. On Wednesday, a U.S. envoy was set to meet the Palestinian president in Switzerland in a last-ditch bid to halt the bid.

    The document says U.N. General Assembly approval of the Palestinian request would violate 1990s agreements between the two sides and "give Israel the right to reconsider and nullify" them in whole or in part. "Adoption of the resolution by the General Assembly will have grave consequences, and set in motion unilateral Israeli responses," the ministry communique said, cautioning that it would also complicate future diplomatic progress.

    Vice Premier Moshe Yaalon, speaking in a similar vein, told Army Radio on Wednesday that his country would "have to take steps to make it clear that there will be a heavy price" if the statehood petition goes ahead. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has also warned previously that a statehood appeal would push peace further away and lead to instability.

    Late Tuesday, U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon warned that the planned Palestinian move would undermine negotiations. "None of us should act in any way that would place a return to talks at risk. There can be no substitute for meaningful negotiations," he said in a speech at Yale University.
    Palestinians, exasperated after 44 years of Israeli occupation, insist they have no choice but to sidestep talks that have foundered for nearly two decades amid a toxic mix of intransigence, violence and failure of will.

    Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas insists he hasn't closed the door on negotiations, but only on condition Israel stop building settlements on lands the Palestinians claim for a future state. Israel refuses to do that, saying the future of settlements will be settled once an agreement is reached on the final borders of Jewish and Palestinian states.

    General Assembly recognition would not change the situation on the ground. But the Palestinians hope to use their upgraded status on the world stage to press their claims for a homeland. They also hope it will be a springboard for admission to other U.N. bodies, including the International Criminal Court, where they hope to prosecute Israel on war crimes charges.

    Vice Premier Yaalon said an appeal to the U.N. would be a "flagrant" breach of the Oslo accords of the early 1990s, which require disputes to be settled through dialogue. He stopped short of saying they would be rendered void.

    "Let's wait," he said. "But we can't let it go by and must take steps to make it clear there will be a heavy price," he said.

    He didn't specify what measures Israel might take. An end to the accords could stop cooperation with the Palestinians in a wide range of areas. Among other things, it could withhold the transfer of millions of dollars in taxes and customs it collects on behalf of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' West Bank government and block the import of equipment for Palestinian security forces, an Israeli official explained.
    No decisions on any such moves have been made, he added.

    Israel delivered a similar message to world leaders last year when the Palestinians – unsuccessfully – sought U.N. Security Council recognition of an independent state with full membership in the world body. The General Assembly, dominated by developing nations sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, is expected to approve their request for a lesser status, non-member observer state.

    Senior Palestinian official Saeb Erekat accused Israel of turning its back on the peace accords long ago, in part with continued settlement construction. He denied the statehood bid was a violation of the agreements.

    The accords "spoke about negotiations on all core issues and that is what the resolution at the U.N. is all about, two states based on the (prewar) `67 border and negotiations to solve all core issues," he said.

    The United States has been lobbying the Palestinians to abandon the bid. President Barack Obama phoned Abbas on Sunday, but the following day, the Palestinian leader announced it would be submitted on Nov. 29.

    U.S. State Department spokesman Mark Toner said Tuesday that the Obama administration's special Mideast peace envoy, David Hale, would meet with Abbas on Wednesday in Switzerland to try to persuade him not to go to the General Assembly.

    "We're still at the stage where we're actively trying to convince them that this is a bad idea, that this is not going to get them the results ultimately that they seek," Toner said. "We've been clear in the past about what some of the consequences that this would generate, or engender. The date of the Palestinians' statehood bid has great historical significance. On Nov. 29, 1947, the General Assembly adopted a resolution
    recommending implementation of a plan to partition what was then British-ruled Palestine into independent Arab and Jewish states. The Jewish community in Palestine accepted the plan, but Arab leaders, including Palestinians, rejected it.

    In the West Bank on Wednesday, dozens of Palestinian demonstrators, along with Israeli and foreign supporters, blocked roads used by Jewish settlers. Israeli soldiers fired tear gas and reopened the road at one checkpoint between the West Bank and Israel.

    Organizers said the protests were meant to mark two dates on the Palestinian calendar: the eighth anniversary of the death of longtime Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and the upcoming anniversary of the 1988 decision by the Palestinians to declare independence.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20121114/ml-israel-palestinians/

    News of this has just broke. Things going seriously downhill in the third world again. I suspect that Hamas is going to declare all out open war on Israel and the political ramification of this are yet to be determined. This following a wave of rocket fire from Gaza strip. Things continue to never end. Netanyahu seems more and more heavy handed by the day.
    Last edited by Admiral Piett; November 14, 2012 at 08:39 AM.
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  2. #2
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    They need to just deport them all and end this violence.

    I don't like "ethnic cleansing" but this is never going to end until one of the two sides leaves the Palestine.
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    legate's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Air strike marks the beginning of a campaign to target Hamas and Islamic Jihad terror organizations in Gaza, IDF spokesman Mordechai says


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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    They need to just deport them all and end this violence.

    I don't like "ethnic cleansing" but this is never going to end until one of the two sides leaves the Palestine.
    Time for the Jews to go back to where they belong.

    Hint: That's not Palestine for the vast majority.
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    King Gambrinus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Treize View Post
    Time for the Jews to go back to where they belong.

    Hint: That's not Palestine for the vast majority.
    That's a destructive solution that is impossible to implement. A joint Israel-Palestine state with equal rights for everyone regardless of creed is a more decisive and reasonable solution, but there is too much nationalist and religious doctrine amongst the two ruling parties.
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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by The Illusionist View Post
    That's a destructive solution that is impossible to implement. A joint Israel-Palestine state with equal rights for everyone regardless of creed is a more decisive and reasonable solution, but there is too much nationalist and religious doctrine amongst the two ruling parties.
    Exactly, but the Jews don't want that. They want their Jewish state in their non-Jewish land. The native non-Jews can themselves according to their twisted logic. But the fact is that they are a bunch of 20th century immigrants and the Palestinians are the decendants of the multiple nations that lived in the region throughout history. If you have to choose between one of the two the invasive foreigners should go, that's a no-brainer.
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    King Gambrinus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Treize View Post
    Exactly, but the Jews don't want that. They want their Jewish state in their non-Jewish land. The native non-Jews can themselves according to their twisted logic. But the fact is that they are a bunch of 20th century immigrants and the Palestinians are the decendants of the multiple nations that lived in the region throughout history. If you have to choose between one of the two the invasive foreigners should go, that's a no-brainer.
    We're in agreement, but I still don't want to see secular Jews who have nothing against Arabs being kicked out of their homes. It really doesn't help...
    Fear not, crusader, Prester John will save you from the wrath of the Devil.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Again? All the time I'm reading about how Israel killed a Hamas commander. Every time there's an explosion in Gaza it's a targeting of a Hamas commander. For some reason outlets like BBC and al-Jazeera and CNN and Fox News insist on claiming that its women and children being killed in those strikes, though.

    Meanwhile Hamas seems to keep truckin. Must be growing commanders in a building somewhere via hydroponics.
    Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas insists he hasn't closed the door on negotiations, but only on condition Israel stop building settlements on lands the Palestinians claim for a future state. Israel refuses to do that, saying the future of settlements will be settled once an agreement is reached on the final borders of Jewish and Palestinian states.
    Jesus Christ, what. What kind of circular logic is this?
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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Motiv-8, there comes a point in the time of each and every runaway (long-lasting) crisis in the world where we simply have tried every conceivable, reasonable argument for a solution and in the end face disappointment. The only thing we are left to do, in that case, is enjoy the irony of it all and laugh at the imperfections of our world.

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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    News of this has just broke. Things going seriously downhill in the third world again. I suspect that Hamas is going to declare all out open war on Israel and the political ramification of this are yet to be determined. This following a wave of rocket fire from Gaza strip. Things continue to never end. Netanyahu seems more and more heavy handed by the day.
    You are late actually, Hamas have fired at least a 100 rockets into Israel in the last few days and have been fired similar numbers for the month or so. Plus there a ATGM attack against a patrol and a few IEDs lately. So don't blame Netanyahu, what in the He is supposed to do ?

    Hamas is to blame, they made their bed and now they are going to lie in them. I hope Netanyahu don't repeat the mistakes of Cast Lead and return some sense of normalcy in Southern Israel.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    You are late actually, Hamas have fired at least a 100 rockets into Israel in the last few days and have been fired similar numbers for the month or so. Plus there a ATGM attack against a patrol and a few IEDs lately. So don't blame Netanyahu, what in the He is supposed to do ?

    Hamas is to blame, they made their bed and now they are going to lie in them. I hope Netanyahu don't repeat the mistakes of Cast Lead and return some sense of normalcy in Southern Israel.

    By assassinating the top commander of Hamas? He doesn't even know if he personally ordered those attacks. This tit-for-tat BS that Israel and Palestine pulls won't end until Israel recognizes the existence of a state and stops bulldozing homes on land they don't legally own to build more settlements for illegal migrants.
    Last edited by Admiral Piett; November 14, 2012 at 09:18 AM.
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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    By assassinating the top commander of Hamas? He doesn't even know if he personally ordered those attacks.
    Killing top commanders is not assassination if you are at war, remember Yamamoto ?

    Who gives a crap if He hasn't give the order personally to launch every single rocket. They were fired, that is the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    This tit-for-tat BS that Israel and Palestine pulls won't end until Israel recognizes the existence of a state and stops bulldozing homes on land they don't legally own to build more settlements for illegal migrants.
    Have you seen a bulldozer in Gaza or "illegal settlements" there lately? There they have their independent state and the first thing they do is to build rockets to attack Israel.

    Because Gaza is such a security problem Israel is not going to repeat the same mistake with Judea and Samaria. I can't blame them for trying to have the cake and eat it, the other side doesn't want to play ball.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post


    Have you seen a bulldozer in Gaza or "illegal settlements" there lately? There they have their independent state and the first thing they do is to build rockets to attack Israel.

    Because Gaza is such a security problem Israel is not going to repeat the same mistake with Judea and Samaria. I can't blame them for trying to have the cake and eat it, the other side doesn't want to play ball.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...89H15K20121018

    Yeap ive seen

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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    Killing top commanders is not assassination if you are at war, remember Yamamoto ?

    Who gives a crap if He hasn't give the order personally to launch every single rocket. They were fired, that is the point.
    That makes no sense. You'd argue in favor of killing people that may not have even had anything to do with the recent violence? Yamamoto designed the decisive attack on Pearl Harbor. Hardly comparable to rockets being fired over a border. I'm not saying the dude is innocent or anything - but responding with top level assassinations is a sure fire way to keep the rockets flowing in on the Israeli people. Thus making the whole endeavor a pointless risk and continues to soil the Israeli reputation with the west. Furthermore, this act will probably only lead to suicide bombings and more innocent people dying. A more sensible method would be targeting the arms dealers, which should be not an impossible task considering everything is under blockade.


    Have you seen a bulldozer in Gaza or "illegal settlements" there lately? There they have their independent state and the first thing they do is to build rockets to attack Israel.
    They have no such thing. If they had an independent state with a proper defense force, militias and thugs like Hamas would not exist with near as much power. Especially considering how much of Hamas is foreign. The radical right-wing in Israel keeps the status quo on purpose so that they have an excuse to gradually diminish and sweep away the rest of the Palestinian diaspora. The more sensible people with more fair proposals are then openly sidelined. It helps the peace process by acting serious about it instead of barking threats and being the one to escalate every incident. Be realistic, the threat Hamas poses to Israel is so miniscule that its little more than a scapegoat. They are nothing compared to Hezbollah.

    Because Gaza is such a security problem Israel is not going to repeat the same mistake with Judea and Samaria. I can't blame them for trying to have the cake and eat it, the other side doesn't want to play ball.
    And for repeatedly ignoring every damned UN mandate to withdraw from illegally occupied territories then wondering why all of their neighbors jump on every opportunity to attack them.
    Last edited by Admiral Piett; November 14, 2012 at 09:56 AM.
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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    They have no such thing. If they had an independent state with a proper defense force, militias and thugs like Hamas would not exist with near as much power. Especially considering how much of Hamas is foreign.
    Hamas won 44.45% Palestinian legislative election, 2006.

    How are you going to protect them from themselves exactly ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    Be realistic, the threat Hamas poses to Israel is so miniscule that its little more than a scapegoat. They are nothing compared to Hezbollah.
    Tell that to the people who are killed by random rockets.

    Hezbollah potential threat is great, but they are contained in Lebanon. Gaza not only is a active missile zone but it is nearby more Israeli population centers around Tel Aviv, hence the urgency of containing the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSutekh View Post
    I thought there was a ceasefire...
    We can all thank Hamas.
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
    La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934

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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    By assassinating the top commander of Hamas? He doesn't even know if he personally ordered those attacks. This tit-for-tat BS that Israel and Palestine pulls won't end until Israel recognizes the existence of a state and stops bulldozing homes on land they don't legally own to build more settlements for illegal migrants.
    Anyone else find this a little funny being posted on a Total War forum? All in good fun Future Filmmaker!

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    And soon Hamas will blow up a school bus and fire some rockets into the south.
    Tit for tat and a eye for a eye leaves everybody blind with no tits.
    Since there is a cease fire between Hamas and Israel (I think) then surely killing a man is against the cease fire.

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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurisprudence Tom Cruise View Post
    And soon Hamas will blow up a school bus and fire some rockets into the south.
    Tit for tat and a eye for a eye leaves everybody blind with no tits.
    Since there is a cease fire between Hamas and Israel (I think) then surely killing a man is against the cease fire.
    Yep, firing rockets at kindergartens and blowing up city buses will be their retaliation.

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    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Assassinating an high commander of Hamas is a wise decision and truly a gift to the Humanrace, because the beasts of Hamas are terrorists and Islamo-Fascist scum!

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    Default Re: Israeli Airstrike Kills Commander of Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Assassinating an high commander of Hamas is a wise decision and truly a gift to the Humanrace, because the beasts of Hamas are terrorists and Islamo-Fascist scum!
    This is actually true.Although I'm sad about the civilians killed, but is that any worse than Obama's drones?Or is it just worse because it's Israel?
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