How do I counter Rhun as Dale?

[lakota]

Seriously... it feels like a never ending stack spam of two units... horse archers and javelins. I can't meet them on the open field and all original tactics go to hell as they run away and my (extremely lightly armored) units tire from chasing them... their generals can steamroll my whole army if they wanted to. I don't think I should have to have the vast advantage in technology to counter such a weak unit of theirs.

All I am doing right now is hiding behind my defenses where they "have" to fight toe to toe to win... and they almost always lose...

Also... they just send their ENTIRE ARMY at a point in my defenses and sometimes my men will route due to numbers.

I am so lost... I tried building ballista's but they don't do anything near enough, my archers can't stand toe to toe with javelins + horse archers + Best heavy cavalry in-game. For every archer I build, they build two javelin units...

I tried Calvary as well but every time I charge them into the units of Javelins, they usually just route due to numbers again... Also my Calvary can't stand toe to toe with their horse archers, they lose every time... WTF?!

I am pretty sure I can hold out forever, but they literally destroy my forces IN THE GROUPING PROCESS to attack a weak city. They don't even get into enemy territory as they have stacks inside my territories near my production cities...

Sometimes I just auto-resolve because that is the only way I feel I can beat them...

[k/t]

The best heavy cavalry in the game is Eldar Cavalry.

Lots of archers should have no problems killing horse archers and javelin skirmishers. Loke cataphracts are easily dispatched by Barding Hird.

TATW 3 is really stupid and you have to rush the enemy right away, otherwise they will swamp you with armies that materialize out of thin air. Rhun has rich settlements and it gets a lot of free money and troops from various scripts, because fighting the same battle 6 times a turn is supposed to be fun. There's a guide to Dale in the Guides section.

I don't know why your troops are routing so much. Do you have a general in the army? Do you let the cavalry fight too long instead of pulling it out after charging? Do you let it get javelined?

Finally, unit balance in Vanilla TA isn't very good, so get one of the RC submods.

[FC Groningen]

Ok, first of all, you should know that Rhun has a very decent unit roster as you already found out and can't consider these units to be "weak" as you mentioned. I haven't played a Dale campaign for a very long time, but this is what I remember:

- Your cavalry is scarse, but should be able to deal with the Variag Raiders. If not, you're doing something wrong. Don't allow them to have the charge bonus and don't get penned in. IF needed, use 2 units of cavalry; 1 to keep their unit busy and 1 to run and charge back in.
- Despite their javelins, you should still have missle superiority in most cases. If so, consider the weather if you're attacking.
- I would however, recommend you fight defensive battles as it will force their army to come to you. That way, you can pick a hill and shoot down from there. Keep spearmen closeby to intercept any charging generals. Their bodyguard is a slow unit and shouldn't be too hard to pin down.
- Note that if you face a stack with a lot of cavalry, it's best to fight them in a settlement as it's nearly impossible to make the most of your cavalry inside the walls. Have some infantry block the streets while your many missle units fire from behind it.
- Not sure whether this is still as vital as it used to be (Before Esgaroth became a large city), but take Uldonavan as soon as possible! The only castle nearby Rhun can get their hands on is in the Iron Hills far to the north. If you take it, Rhun will have no access to decent troops for a very long time, unless a script is triggered.
- Expansion is power. Try to rush some settlements right away as the lands near the Sea of Rhun are very fertile and very rich! The mines give a lot of extra income alone. After, the ports give a lot of money.

[brasswire]

4 or 5 archer units behind a wall of cheap spearmen should be able to counter their javelins and low level infantry. Archers are amazing and your best weapons as Dale, but you need to protect them with cheap, expendable guys as they are very weak in melee. The Hearth Watchmen are pretty crappy but they are cheap, absorb losses, and generally act as meatshields for your more valuable units. You want to spam these guys as much as possible and expect to lose a ton of them, but it's worth it if your archers aren't dying.

To counter the Rhun bodyguard units, Rivermen and Dalesmen are great. Both have armor piercing so they are an awesome counter to heavy cavalry. You want to let them charge into your expendable Hearth Watchmen, and then counter attack them with the Rivermen and Dalesmen and you should be able to wipe them out fairly quickly.

The low level Dale Cavalry is also pretty sad, but 1 or 2 units is fairly necessary to counter the Rhun mounted archers. The goal here isn't necessarily to beat them 1 on 1 (because your Yeomen are too weak), but rather just to stall them, keep them occupied so they aren't pounding your lines with arrows and not allowing them to run free around the entire battlefield. If all your Yeomen do is prevent them from using their shooting-circle formation, that's good enough. Your archers can take them out as long as they don't use that formation. If you can get a unit of spearmen to charge them while they're engaged with your Yeomen even better.

[Wolfeson]

I've had some success with Dale, and I also found some of their unit mixes very frustrating initially. First off, the way to counter their javelins is to try and surround them. If you have units flanking them on both sides and in front (not into melee, but close enough to trigger their skirmish mode retreat) they'll contract into one dense mass. This makes a far better target for your archers than a line of javelins in loose formation; you can do real damage at that point. My main strategy has been to just get tons of archers, sort of an elf-lite army comp, largely because everything else Dale has sucks until mid/late-game. One big tip: make sure you expand to the south, because those regions can give you Rhovanion Riders and Spearmen, which are a big help. The Rhovanion Spearmen in particular are your one early unit that can take a charge from Rhun generals. Try and swarm those generals with your spearmen, and make sure you don't let the generals themselves get away. Counter their cavalry archers with your foot archers; they'll wreck them, especially if you can get a couple volleys on them before they can form shooting circle. Just make sure you upgrade as many archery ranges as possible until you can get longbowmen; these guys are the mainstay of your early to mid-game army. Lastly, be aggressive on the campaign map; you need to start taking away some of their settlements before their econ. advantage crushes you.

[Mikail Mengsk]

If you stay on the defensive you'll get crushed, no matter what you do. Hold them in the first turns only while building a strong full-stack. Then, send it into a weak point of their empire and start conquering and pillaging their settlements, getting huge amounts of money. Don't forget to burn to the ground every building for extra moneys.

With those moneys you should be able to afford some economic building and to upgrade your army.

Be sure Rhun and Dwarves always share a border: they will eventually fight each other, which will make it easier for you.

[BeingDale]

You have prevent Rhun from getting established. Rush to Kugavod and then gift to the Dwarves, then rush to Uldonavan a key recruitment centre before establishing you line at Burh Ermanarikis where you can defend the two bridges easily enough while you regroup for the push into Rhun itself. If you sit back to much you are going to be destroyed.

Fight defensively preferably with Rhun coming to you. Have plenty of archers 6-10 including a maybe half of this number as general units, some Rivermen with skirmish off and Hearth Watchmen as a front line to soak up cavalry charges and javelins as well as dish some out in return. It is often worth concentrating a volley or two on the Rhun general as they vulnerable to archer fire and you can cut a unit down from 18-21 to 5 very swiftly. Don't chase Horse Archers around the field you should easily be able to out shoot them with massed archer fire. Your early cavalry is poor and shouldn't be relied upon to do much more than charge a flank or rear and flee alongside mopping up routing enemy troops, never engage with javelin troops with your cavalry unless they are already in melee as when you pull away they often get a volley off and cut your cavalry down. Fire arrows are good for instigating mass routs although be careful when and how you use them as your early troops are hardly the fight to the death sort.

[scostens]

If you fight an army with rhun generals don't forget to put your hearth watchmen to schiltrom.
This will not only stop their bodyguards dead in their tracks, it will also be a lot less costly to you, in terms of casualties. Except if the javelinmen decide to use the schiltrom for target practice. Best to spam woodsmen to deal with those pests. Balchotch have almost no armor and should drop like flies when under archer fire. If you position your schiltroms far enough apart, your archers will be able to fire through the gaps between your units at the enemy, even if the enemy is already attacking your schiltroms.

[Dude with the Food]

Even easier solution.
Cancel out their horse archers almost completely.

Take rebel settlements in Rhovanion especially Uldonavan. It's key.
Fight defensively their and only leave cities to garrison towns and move troops south.
Hopefully the Dwarves will attack Rhun in the North so you can focus on sending armies in pairs to deter enemies and only fight in cities. Use spies to find best routes and low garrison towns and siege them first. If their HA beat your cavalry in melee aswell then you need to use less cavalry and more archers/spearmen.

[Altimis]

Seems like you play too passive and have problems with economy managements that make you don't have enough money to do anything but wait them crushing you

You need more settlements to make your money and built army to counter them

Then everything will easier and easier.

[DrDragun]

Seems like you play too passive and have problems with economy managements that make you don't have enough money to do anything but wait them crushing you

You need more settlements to make your money and built army to counter them

Then everything will easier and easier.

Well, sometimes the AI can grow a colony faster especially if it starts at the village level, 1 unit garrison costs more than the amount of money that the village can produce and it's better to let the AI grow it to Town level first. This mostly applies to the North area of the map.

[lakota]

I do play passively... it's how I enjoy playing the game. I like efficiency and challenges. If a game becomes to easy I generally quit

lol but thank you for the feed back, I will try these strats and look at the links.

[Gabrius]

Dale is a faction where you have to be VERY aggressive to stand a chance (but you also have to hold your ground well enough!) Lots of archers helps, as does early and decisive actions in enemy territory. Don't be afraid to push into the East!

[C.Maximus]

When i was dale i had a rough time breaking past uldunavin or whatever that castle us called... I basically held them there with king bard and a half a stack of guys... No cav... The rhun sent their full stack eveey time... Sometimes i sally forth onto that hill rihjt south of the castle... I then took a second almost full stack and went around the other side of the lake to flank them... They lost three cities quick and it was kinda downhill from there... Keep those longbowman alive... I think mine had amost full gold chevons