Christmas Tree Controversy in Brussels

[Armenum]

Edit

Upon reading other sources, it seems that the changing of the Christmas tree was interpreted by some traditionalist forces as "placating" the Muslim Community, when in reality the decision to change it was simply: "We wanted to emphasize culture and modernity, so asked artists to reinvent the Christmas tree, which is actually a pagan symbol,” he explained." Which actually is something rather refreshing and commendable. So I guess, let's change the flow of the topic to the talk of the traditionalists hijacking the actual meaning behind the switch to bash the Muslim community and how in general religious symbols should be displayed in multicultural societies like that of Brussels. My apologies if my previous post took the wrong approach to this. I also fell victim to the traditionalists' interpretation.

Euronews:

A petition calling for a real Christmas tree in Brussels’ Grand Place has attracted 10,000 signatures.

Angering traditionalists, the Belgian city’s tourist board has commissioned a 25-metre installation made from screens that will put on light and sound displays.

Reassuring people that the festivities will be just as authentic, president of Brussels Tourism Philippe Close said: “Let’s be clear, there’ll be a Christmas tree and a nativity scene. Christmas traditions will be respected.

“The theme this year is “winter pleasures” at the huge Christmas market that has a worldwide reputation. We wanted to emphasize culture and modernity, so asked artists to reinvent the Christmas tree, which is actually a pagan symbol,” he explained.

There have been attempts to stir racial tensions, with some falsely blaming the switch from the usual real Christmas tree on offended Muslims.

http://www.euronews.com/2012/11/12/m...hristmas-tree/

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

How is censoring a symbol of a Christian holiday secular? A secular government would keep the away from cultural or religious things like this.

[removeduser_487563287433]

This sounds like nonsense. I'll wait for another, more mainstream source.

[Bobz]

This sounds like nonsense. I'll wait for another, more mainstream source.

Most of these stories turn out to be Daily Mailesque rants based upon misconceptions or wilful lies to spread their fearmongering.

[Stavroforos]

http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuw..._market_square

[Himster]

ing hell, more anti-secularism in the name of "respect". Ironically it is disrespectful to enforce such an order.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Ferrets is right again:

http://www.euronews.com/2012/11/12/m...hristmas-tree/

"There have been attempts to stir racial tensions, with some falsely blaming the switch from the usual real Christmas tree on offended Muslims."

Remember kids, if it sounds too outrageous to be true, it probably isn't.

[Necromancer]

Secularism should defend the state from religion, but it should also defend religion from the state. So, there shouldn't be a ban on any religious symbols, customs etc. that don't interfere with any laws of the state.

Seems like this has been debunked, though. Good to know.

http://www.euronews.com/2012/11/12/m...hristmas-tree/

Jesus H, that thing is ugly as sin...

its you christians who ed it up. And I recall the tree being a germanic symbol only showing up after the Druids... where did you hear the tree is of celtic origins.

No one ed up anything.

In order to reach an agreeable compromise between Catholic Rome and pagan Germania, many newly Christianized Germanic tribes were allowed to hold on to some of their pagan customs. In this case, the tree, which was a symbol of the Winter Solstice. In fact, Christmas Day was switched to its current date to also reach a happy medium with pagans.

It reappeared in Germany during the renaissance, when many customs from antiquity were reintroduced to Europe.

And lol "you Christians".

[removeduser_487563287433]

I think the tree looks quite pretty, myself. It's a bit Darwinia.

[Stavroforos]

I don't see how that thing has anything to do with trees.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I don't see how that thing has anything to do with trees.

Tell me how it has been changed to prevent offending carnivores.

[Stavroforos]

Tell me how it has been changed to prevent offending carnivores.

I don't understand your Ferretspeak, repeat question in plain English.

[Plan C]

EDIT: Thanks Ferrets :-)

[SuperTechmarine]

Cool story bro.

[muller227]

Well hell, I actually have too admire the irony of this. In the US Merry Christmas is being replaced by Happy Holidays too not offend (I still can't figure out who is offended). I suppose radical atheists or the radical separation of church and state crowd(every group gets its own nuts)

So basically atheists and Muslims agree that the Christmas tree is evil. Luckily I have one of those plastic types(hate repairing the vacuum cleaner) I will put it up this weekend. Celebrate my heathen Celtic heritage.

[torongill]

Well hell, I actually have too admire the irony of this. In the US Merry Christmas is being replaced by Happy Holidays too not offend (I still can't figure out who is offended). I suppose radical atheists or the radical separation of church and state crowd(every group gets its own nuts)

So basically atheists and Muslims agree that the Christmas tree is evil. Luckily I have one of those plastic types(hate repairing the vacuum cleaner) I will put it up this weekend. Celebrate my heathen Celtic heritage.

What irony?

Reassuring people that the festivities will be just as authentic, president of Brussels Tourism Philippe Close said: “Let’s be clear, there’ll be a Christmas tree and a nativity scene. Christmas traditions will be respected.
“The theme this year is “winter pleasures” at the huge Christmas market that has a worldwide reputation. We wanted to emphasize culture and modernity, so asked artists to reinvent the Christmas tree, which is actually a pagan symbol,” he explained.
There have been attempts to stir racial tensions, with some falsely blaming the switch from the usual real Christmas tree on offended Muslims.

In case it escaped your attention,

There have been attempts to stir racial tensions, with some FALSELY blaming the switch from the usual real Christmas tree on offended Muslims.

edit: Damn you, Ferreeeeeeetttz!!!!eleventyone!1!

[Lord Baratheon]

Well hell, I actually have too admire the irony of this. In the US Merry Christmas is being replaced by Happy Holidays too not offend (I still can't figure out who is offended). I suppose radical atheists or the radical separation of church and state crowd(every group gets its own nuts)

So basically atheists and Muslims agree that the Christmas tree is evil. Luckily I have one of those plastic types(hate repairing the vacuum cleaner) I will put it up this weekend. Celebrate my heathen Celtic heritage.

This kind of ignorance simply cannot go unanswered.Prehaps you should take another look at your Nations Constitution(you are American Right?).The establishment clause clearly states that the Govt shall not endorse any particular religion.So by''the radical separation of Church and State crowd'' I presume you mean your Country's founders.Separation of Church and State is one of the principles the U.S was founded upon.It's a fine principle indeed that allows true religious freedom(and from it).In the U.S you are free to celebrate Christmas however you want.The Govt. shoud not be endorsing it however.
(although I a Secularist, see no issue really with a Tree)

[muller227]

This kind of ignorance simply cannot go unanswered.Prehaps you should take another look at your Nations Constitution(you are American Right?).The establishment clause clearly states that the Govt shall not endorse any particular religion.So by''the radical separation of Church and State crowd'' I presume you mean your Country's founders.Separation of Church and State is one of the principles the U.S was founded upon.It's a fine principle indeed that allows true religious freedom(and from it).In the U.S you are free to celebrate Christmas however you want.The Govt. shoud not be endorsing it however.
(although I a Secularist, see no issue really with a Tree)

Nor do I see a damn problem with the Christmas tree. Perhaps I wrote this wrong I dislike extremists of any kind. I do not believe the Ten Commandments should be displayed in our courts of law. The Chrismas tree is a symbol of life derived from a dead religion(except for practicing witches). I sort of like life, fond of mistletoe as well. I find it interesting that those who wish to remove religion from government agree with those who want too make religion the government over a tree with pretty lights. What was it the fact that I see not a damn difference between Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays its all the same, and the debate on the matter shows that Americans have far too much time on their hands.

[Lord Baratheon]

Nor do I see a damn problem with the Christmas tree. Perhaps I wrote this wrong I dislike extremists of any kind. I do not believe the Ten Commandments should be displayed in our courts of law. The Chrismas tree is a symbol of life derived from a dead religion(except for practicing witches). I sort of like life, fond of mistletoe as well. I find it interesting that those who wish to remove religion from government agree with those who want too make religion the government over a tree with pretty lights. What was it the fact that I see not a damn difference between Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays its all the same, and the debate on the matter shows that Americans have far too much time on their hands.

I can see what you mean here,Fair enough.

[Himster]

In the US Merry Christmas is being replaced by Happy Holidays

Well that's just common sense and proper manners if addressing a secular multi-cultural group of people (ie. Americans).
Quite different from banning a non-denominational tradition of coniferous tree decoration.