New Supply System Proposal (Fan's Concept)
Splenyi' Supply System Concept
Hi there guys. I was previously arguing with a TWC member here on the forums, and his point was that realism doesn't equal fun; my point was the opposite. I proposed to him a unique supply system feature that I created, and he rejected it, saying that it definitely would not be fun, and that I should make some type online poll or petition to see how popular it would actually be (his assumption being that everyone would reject it). So here I am to propose my concept:
Foraging: every army on the map has an "occupation radius" just like on Empire, Napoleon, and Shogun 2; we all know this. But I would like to suggest an additional larger radius, called the "supply radius", or something like that. Below I have an image showing what I mean; the black dot is the army, red radius is the occupation, and blue is the supply.
This blue radius, called the supply radius, is the area that the army is allowed to use to supply ones troops via the foraging process, and the amount of supply is calculated from the amount of "points" provided by the percentage of the given terrain. Lets say for this example, that desert provides the given army with 1 point per percent, mountains give 1, hills and forest give 2, plains give 3, farms give 5. Lets use the above map for an example of calculation:
20% of the terrain in the armies radius is mountains, 25% is hills, 5% is forest, 25% plains, and the remaining 25% is farmlands. So, lets calculate the supply provided by this terrain with a simple formula (20*1+25*2+5*2+25*3+25*5). What this does is multiply the percentage of land with the amount of points it is worth, giving a total of 280 points. Now, for this example lets say that a single point can provide for 5 men, so this particular radius can support a total army of 1,400 men from foraging alone.
Any number of troops over this amount should suffer from attrition, disease, malnutrition, etc. over time. Additional factors should be taken into consideration for the formula also, like; if an army is in the same area over too long a period, then the amount of supply points from this area should decrease, possibly by a certain percentage every turn. This would be caused from working the land too hard, and stripping all the farms dry and the villagers supplies. Also, armies/nations/units that are akin to certain conditions (eg. Germans in the forest, Libyans in the Desert, Scythians in the Steppe) should gain a bonus amount from the given terrain (maybe a single, or half a point to add to the formula, haven't thought about it much).
Here is a map of about the same scale of Sicily with an army stationed on there. As you can see, this island would not provide the same amount of land to supply off.
Other aspects that could be added to the formula could be things like; if two allied armies are in close perimeter to each other, and they share about 30% of each others supply radius, then they should only receive half of the supply from that given terrain, which would likely cause casualties in both armies. Another thing to add would be if one of your armies and an enemy army, and they both shared 30% of the supply radius, then this should have the same result, but with additional casualties from conflicting forages and pillagers.
Here is a map of an army stationed on Malta. As you can see, this army has very little land to forage off, and would not be able to support many troops.
There could be many ways to improve the supply limit in a region, like constructing "land clearance" buildings, or improving the agriculture of the region. I haven't thought about this much either. Ocean could also give a small amount of support to supply for the army, like a figure of 0.2 or something, like from local fishing. There are a lot of ways to expand this concept, and I haven't though much about it to much lately, but I would love to hear what you guys could offer too
What I think this feature will solve is; spamming the concentration of forces for a huge defense or assault on a single small area; the AI or player having an entire stack, or more, stationed on a tiny island such as Malta; forcing the player to use forces as small as necessary for his operations, to reduce attrition casualties (attrition always caused casualties in reality); make it realistically easier for the people that live in desert, steppe or forest to defend again invaders; it will fix a whole deal of things, so will make a big contribution to gameplay and realism.
EDIT: Additions to the concept
Supply Lines: this issue was brought up early on in the thread, and was an issue that has been in my mind for a while, and I think I created a solution. The supply line is connected from one of your armies, to the closest possible city, and the supply lines will always choose the shortest possible path, usually following roads for swifter movement and logical reasons. These supply lines give the army a certain amount of additional supply points. These supply lines can be assaulted by an enemy army, just like assaulting a trade route with an army or navy on Empire: Total War. The amount of supply points distributed to an army on the field could be provided by certain buildings in the city (like farms, supply post, etc.)
Here on this map we see an invading Celtic army (the one with the radius around it), and an intercepting Roman army. The Roman army might not be strong enough to attack the Celtic army directly, so might need to lure them into the Roman position and force the Celts to attack them there by cutting off their supply lines. If the Celts ignored this, they could loose a lot of troops from attrition, because the Celtic army might not be able solely live off the land.
Here on this map, we have a Roman army (the one with the radius around it) defending the north of Italy, and is being supplied by a city on shore (the square, and the path is the supply line for the army). On the south of Italy we can see a Greek army that has decided to assault the Roman supply lines because it is not strong enough to attack the Roman army directly, or make a siege on the city. This would force the Romans to attack the Greeks and gain their supply line back, otherwise they would not receive the supplies they needed, and would suffer attrition.
Supply lines can only go so far though, and you will not be able to have a supply line originating from Rome, and supplying an army in Scandinavia. You will either need to conquer a region along the way and establish a supply line from there, or make diplomatic relations with another nation, so they can create a supply line for your army in return for money; but supply lines might not be necessary because your army can already forage off the land. Supply lines should also cost additional money.
I think this aspect would add a lot of tactical gameplay to the campaign map, and not to mention some needed realism. This would add the option of armies being able to provoke each other into an assault; better use of geurilla warfare (which has never been portrayed properly in Total War); and would allow huge armies to supply there self not only off the land, but from logistics too.
EDIT: Further development on this part of the concept after ideas from Markas. His suggestion:
"Simply a trade route from the nearest settlement to the army that is either green (strong), yellow (Medium) or red (weak). Factors that decide it's strength could be logistical skills of the general, Roads, friendly/hostile territory etc, enemy units harassing it etc. Weak supply lines reduce movement, create desertions, decrease morale and maybe missile weapons etc."
And from zg0301zg:
"also on campaign map it should be visible like in ETW amount of trade / volume, this way you could calculate and strategize about guerilla warfare and harrasing enemy and vice versa"
EDIT: Additions to the concept
Support from the Navy: another addition to the concept that is inspired by history (mainly Xerxes' invasion of Greece). The navy should be able to support the armies supply with "cargo ships". Each cargo ship in the navy will provide the army with an additional amount of supply points each. The army can only receive these additional supplies if the navy is in the "supply radius" of the army.
Below is a map showing an enemy army besieging the island of Malta, with a support navy containing cargo ships in it's supply radius (the blue square).
Each cargo ship should have only a certain amount of supply points that it can give out to an army, and once it has ran out, it would need to stop off at an allied port for a few turns to stock up on supply points again, which would cost money.
This would allow the option for armies to perform distant campaigns, armies that cannot establish a close enough supply line. It would be very useful for big armies that cannot simply live off the land, and would need additional help. The down side is this form of supply would only be available to armies performing near the coast, or on an island.
Please note, I would not want this feature to be compulsory for your Total War experience. I would like it as an option, so think about that before submitting your pole choice.
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Originally Posted by Splenyi
This actually made me laugh.
), there is a "supply trail" that is left behind by the army, from where ever it moves. It generally follows roads, and will always go the shortest possible path to the army, and originates from your closest city, or from an allied city if you have the right diplomatic agreements. The enemy army can "attack" this supply trail, just like how you can pillage enemy trade routes in ETW with armies and navies. Doing this will greatly reduce the amount of supply to the army. I was thinking that it will instantly cut the supply from the homeland (previously mentioned as 40%), instead of it decreasing at a regular pace in foreign land.
that's not much help
