Protector Domesticus
Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
Considering the possibility that Scotland will gain independence in 2014, a question rises:Will other regions of Europe also gain independence in the decades that will follow?Except UK, many other countries like Spain, Germany or Italy could break up creating about a dozen new countries.Is this going to be the end of Europe as one of the leading continents in the world?What is your opinion about this?
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
If it does I am defo going to the USA to live ( already thinking about it)
Last edited by John ''True Grit'' Wayne; November 06, 2012 at 11:29 AM.
Comes Rei Militaris
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
Depends on what centrifugal forces are countered by the factors that allowed these regions to gravitate to each other. The blackhole of economic meltdown may convince enough Scots that their future is with the United Kingdom, while the Germans having sacrificed so much for their longed for union aren't likely to rupture it any time soon.
Who knows which way the Italians will go, since much of they tend to talk a great deal and yet accomplish very little.
Eats, shoots, and leaves.
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
Political fads come and go. Yes, now is a time of growing nationalism, based on romanticism and chauvinism rather than any mature understanding of politics or fair analysis. Who can say what the future holds?Originally Posted by Papay
The central Governments of Europe are all taking different approaches to the problem. Madrid strongly resists any movement that might give Catalonia any further clout to develop an independent future. Italy's Byzantine political atmosphere sees the rise and fall of Prime Ministers, sometimes well in bed with separatist and fascist parties. The United Kingdom has decided to face down the problem head on, and put it to the vote whilst the going is good.
How will this play out? Catalonia is bankrupt, desperately reliant on loans from the desperately precarious central Government. Italy never runs according to any sort of logic, but the notion of the Northerners becoming united enough to force a succession seems remote. France and Germany are comfortable within their own borders. If Scotland rejects independence then the matter will be settled for decades to come, and may become less politically important.
That doesn't leave much of Europe to Balkanise.
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
It would be ironic if Europe took the course of the Balkans, which did so because of Europeans. Full swing, full circle, etc.
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
The Balkans are European...
Praepositus
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
Not if you're on the other side of the Atlantic. Then they become a mountaneous mythical land of primitive hairy creatures that kill each other over the rights of goat paths, while walking on live coals under the sounds of sirtaki.
But he's right in a way. The Great Powers used the peoples of the Balkans for their goals and forgot that people aren't tools.
"Per Ballista ad astra!" - motto of the Roman Legionary Artillery.
Republicans in all their glory...
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
Uh... that only takes us so far in history. Then we get to Yugoslavia, where they Balkanised themselves in a frenzied bloodbath.
vezir-i âzam
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
On the flipside the Balkan powers were prepared to use Great Power patronisation for their own nationalistic aims. It worked both ways. Both sides played with fire and eventually got burnt.
Dux Limitis
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
'Balkanisation' is an odd term since it implies that we'll all be killing eachother for no reason.
Yes, I'm sure that Austro-Hungary and Czar Nicholas II were responsible for what happened in the 1990s somehow.
Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.
Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.
Jajem ssoref is m'n korewE goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtompWer niks is, hot kawsones
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
Indeed, Europeans always have good reasons to kill each other, as opposed to those pesky Balkan peasants.
Comes Rei Militaris
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
The Balkans were always a problem.
Eats, shoots, and leaves.
Comes Domesticorum
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
If EU is controlling Europe I don't see how a bit more provinces would hurt.
A Place of Greater Safety
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
What does that even mean?
Patron to Lord Mov, Azog 150, JaM, Lord William, Grouchy13
"For what it’s worth: it’s never too late to be whoever you want to be. I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again."
Praepositus
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
A made-up state consisting of people with different history, language and religion, in which every "Republic" has one vote, except for Serbia, which has three. The Serbs want a strong central government, meaning a Great Serbia, while the others want more autonomy. What couldpossibly go wrong?
Absolutely true.
"Per Ballista ad astra!" - motto of the Roman Legionary Artillery.
Republicans in all their glory...
Дијана
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
Serbia didn't have three votes. Vojvodina and Kosovo were technically a part of Serbia, but in effect they were independent republics (and the latter of course had an Albanian leadership, not Serbian).
Praepositus
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
except of course for the fact that the "Anti-bureaucratic "revolution"" elected his guys in Montenegro and Voivodina and when Kosovo had to vote on returning back to the benevolent ascendancy of Serbia, the Albanians had to vote under the watchful eyes of numerous Serbian police representatives newly sent to Kosovo to maintain the peace and fairness of the vote. As a result and following the arrest of a prominent Albanian leader, the Albanians boycotted the elections. I don't know the exact rules, but iirc if there are less than 50% voter turnout, the vote is invalidated. Since the Albanians were 70% and didn't vote... the elections were pronounced and the Sloba guys elected.
"Per Ballista ad astra!" - motto of the Roman Legionary Artillery.
Republicans in all their glory...
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
You see, your first mistake was expecting hellheaven to make anything even approximating sense.
- Formerly known as Rolling Thunder (Lost the account details).
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
A Balkanization can hardly happen in an environment were essentially everyone adheres to democratic principles but wants to stay in the same international systems.
So Scotland leaves the UK... they certainly will want to stay in the EU and/or NATO and keep close ties to the UK. If Catalonia left Spain,... they certainly would want to stay in the EU/NATO. If not they will still want to join xth European and international treaties. The big difference of the EU and its countries in contrast to e.g. Yugoslavia is that they are not held together by force and an autocratic control.
"Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
Mangalore Design
Re: Will Europe end up the way of the Balkans?
Scotland leaving the UK doesn't make a new country it just removes a country from the UK which isn't a single country. Most of it is the country of England but England isn't the UK.
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