Stainless Steel/BGR Economy help

[NEXUS12]

So, I am having a bit of trouble trying to figure out the economy and how it flows with SS and BGR installed. I have read the release threads and still cannot quite make out what is going on. If on any given turn I look at my financial overview, it will say I am set to make 7k profit overall on the next turn, I will end my turn and make/lose a lot less than was projected. I know there is an intriguing new system with family members claiming expenses, taxing estates, etc etc, but I am having trouble grasping how to determine my finances for the next turn and how much money I can actually spend, since the projected profits in financial overview are very inaccurate.

Anyone have time to explain the basics to a noob like me?

[Byg]

Just leave a little money in reserve, maybe 5000 or 10000. Whatever you can spare. This covers unforeseen circumstances due to the game not being in a position to predict bgr costs and income, or indeed some non bgr costs.

You can roughly and quickly work out where money has gone after the event by looking at the bgr summary scrolls.

When you have played a while you get a feel for the economy.

[Strengelicher]

Which version of BGR are you using?

[NEXUS12]

I'm using version 2 at the moment, cos I have removed a few scripts to lessen ai turn time, which beforehand was around 4 minutes. Also I read in a few places 2 is less complex than 4 so I decided to get the hang of 2 first before I used 4. Am I correct in saying that when you see the bgr summary scrolls they relate to the previous turn or are they the prediction for the next turn? I hope that males sense :p

[NEXUS12]

Scrap that, my last post will make no sense. I am using bgr 4, not 2. I thought I chose 2 in the setup but it was a late night I guess.. Anyway, I am just looking for a way to find out how much money I am prejected to make/lose. Maybe I have to add/subtract certain traits such as 'currently beseiging' or maybe its all in the bgr financial summary, I dunno

[Kaidonni]

You'll be best served by relying on your noggin' for BGR IV. The game is not set up to calculate gains and losses from BGR features, so the financial scroll won't ever be accurate. A pencil and some paper, along with a calculator, will be your best friend. Know all of the 'hidden' costs (generals reclaiming recruitment expenses, taking a portion of the taxes for personal estates, etc). Have a float so that if you make a bigger loss than expected, you have money to fall back on.

[Ichon]

After awhile you will get a sense of the costs. Basically for me at least the largest fluctuations from turn to turn of BGR costs are; 1. family member coming of age 2. mercenaries 3. inflation 4. supply costs 5. extra costs due to units being recruited without a general or WC 6. increased corruption...or something I am not sure exactly what causes it but most of my generals in BGR become useless as governors- put them in settlement and the settlement begins rioting, even loyal WC's with good obvious traits increase unrest. Only the FL seems to decrease unrest reliably, Heir, WC's loyal generals all have to sit outside the city as income goes down and rioting starts otherwise.

[Byg]

Personally I've never experienced my governors universally causing rioting without having specifically fallen foul of some feature through my own actions, like someone starting a rebellion by disobeying orders or acting against the will of the king.

I nearly always keep taxes low unless I want some character to fill his pockets there, which benefits financially long term and take care not to put a young green nobles in somewhere that requires more experience.

Wait for a new noble to be able to afford his supplies before sending him off to govern somewhere prone to rioting. You can centralise his supply purchases initially by appointing him some rank or send him to a safe city where you can raise taxes to quickly increase income.

[NEXUS12]

Ok so I am completely confused and out of my depth here.

Where do the supplies come from? Are they just generated?

Does the money that nobles use to purchase supplies go into the treasury?

Do nobles claim some of the city/castle tax when they govern it?

Furthermore, I have also experienced the generals causing unrest problem. It seems to happen with most of my generals or family members, except the ones who win battle after battle, or the faction leader.

I think I will get the hang of it eventually, I am just seemingly unable to grasp the whole financial mechanics of BGR, because my brain is being fried trying to work out what my profits/losses will be the following year, and it is frustrating me because BGR makes the campaign 500% more realistic. I really want to get the hang of it

[Byg]

Good point about supply generation. They are generated the same as population and money is, via settlements. It is assumed that if troops could be fed by a settlement when they live there then they can also be supplied from it prior to going on the march. Though of course supplies represent more than just food. There is an unrest effect from drawing too many supplies at once though to reflect a sudden burden upon the settlement from an army that is very low on supplies. Even though an army will pay for these, they are are going to take them regardless. The only thing that would prevent resupply is lack of local support for the army, represented by religious support, and lack of generals money.

In V there is a different and much more complex system for foraged supplies, where it is generated by harvests which interact with the weather system and occupying forces, both friendly and opposing, and the population.

Arguably I could add a system to make carried supplies, as opposed to foraged, also dependent on harvest resources, but then this would add a level of complexity and difficulty unappreciated by most players.

The money spent by either the treasury or individual nobles on supplies goes to merchants and the people in the markets in the towns who sell their goods. This means it is not there for the treasury and is effectively lost as far as your game is concerned.

Nobles personally take money from settlements they govern in three ways, via corruption, via their payment/share for governing/owning, which is proportionate to the tax level set, and a local tax on advanced markets.

BTW, In version V the player assigns regions to either the central authority or to individual nobles who have ownership/ land tenure. This system is different and more realistic as local lords continue to take money from their property even when not there and others may not collect money there. They are also taxed relatively to their holdings and their income from their holdings may be affected by the weather system and foraging which in turn affect the harvests and therefore their income.

Thus invading devastating armies, or even friendly ones, can devastate a settlement to such an extent that it may take many years to recover and become financially beneficial again. In fact it can can cost nobles money to own it in such times because settlement upkeep costs are constant. However governors can still rip off the remaining population via high taxes, which will add to the depopulation effects.

Back to version IV:
Unrest will generally increase as you conquer more territory, the zeal effect, but this need not be at a rate that is beyond your control. Simple build the appropriate facility to decrease unrest before it gets out of hand and accept that this may slow your progress. Conquering too fast may get you into trouble. Most expert players sort this out without even thinking about it. Also bear in mind that other mods selectable in the ss64 installer will also add unrest.

war council members are unaffected by the unrest factor of zeal because, after all, they are the system.

Regarding other economy tips, the main drain is new nobles coming of age and being assigned purses and estates etc. just be generally aware of when family members come of age via the family tree. Obviously if you suddenly recruit a load of elite troops for the king then the treasury will be paying and therefore you will also see a coresponding drop in your finances on the following turn. But these are things within your control so as already stated in this thread, leave a balance in your treasury to cover such things.

[NEXUS12]

Thanks for the tips Byg, I would rep you if it were possible

I think that when you look at it from a simple point of view, it baffles me why CA didn't include things like supplies in the original game, but hey nevermind..

[Byg]

Well to be fair to ca their game runs on a timescale that makes supplies irrelevant, meaning any foraging/supply concerns would have been on a weekly, not yearly basis, but As their game includes two timescales, one for history passing and one for generals movement, I prefer to play my games in the generals' timescale instead.

[Strengelicher]

With BGR IV, I have to admit that I do not calculate everything before ending a turn, but rather go by "feeling". The things I do pay attention to are those that generate significant costs which are not displayed in the treasury forecast. Most notably these are the costs for buying estates for family members coming of age and on the following turns the costs for filling up their supplies. In addition, I try to avoid recruiting too many units in settlements without a general present, as I think that also generates extra costs (might be mistaken here though).

[Byg]

If a general avoids payment by quitting the settlement, abandoning his training duties, before the unit is fully trained then the treasury pays and it pays double.

[Kreissig]

Thanks Byg for all the thought you put into this....it makes this game so much more fun.