Was Macedon meant to be that weak?

[The_Judge]

I started an Epeiros campaign (start: Spring of 272) and the folowing happened:
- Spring of 272: Epeiros captures Pella in a city battle.
- Summer of 272: Epeiros captures Demetrias in a city battle.
- Winter of 272: Epeiros defeats two Macedonian armies in a field battle on the hill top outside Corinth and captures Corinth in a separate city battle This causes the destruction of the Macedonian faction and the rebellion of Chalkis and Mytilene.

In reality Pyrrhos made the mistake not to defeat Macedon when he had the chance. Is this the depiction of what he should have done? Was this made on purpose?

[seleucid empire]

macedonia has the largest and strongest starting army in the game...

[seleucid empire]

its only easy to blitz cause Epirus has elephants which can batter down gates

[The_Judge]

The first thing I did in this campaign was disbanding my elephant unit...

[seleucid empire]

The first thing I did in this campaign was disbanding my elephant unit...

why did you do that?????

I think i you feel this way if you start as either Epirus or Macedonia since the first thing you have to do in the campaign is wipe the other one out.

So it feels like that Macedonia hasnt been putting up much of a fight since you wiped them out early in the game

[Slaists]

The first thing I did in this campaign was disbanding my elephant unit...

Sso, how did you capture Pella and Demetrias on turn 1 and 2 respectively [AND Corinth on the same turn as having 2 field battles there...] if you had your elephant unit disbanded? Need something to batter down the gates if want to storm the city in a single turn.

Anyway, spare disbanding elephants, I did the same as you and sued for peace with Macedon after capture of Demetrias. Macedonians agreed and went on to fight with the Greeks which allowed me to destroy Rome.

[seleucid empire]

Sso, how did you capture Pella and Demetrias on turn 1 and 2 respectively [AND Corinth on the same turn as having 2 field battles there...] if you had your elephant unit disbanded? Need something to batter down the gates if want to storm the city in a single turn.

Anyway, spare disbanding elephants, I did the same as you and sued for peace with Macedon after capture of Demetrias. Macedonians agreed and went on to fight with the Greeks which allowed me to destroy Rome.

he probably used spies if he was able to attack corinth. although, if that were the case, I will have gained some new respect for him. Corinth was always a murder hole every time I have besieged it. If I recall, its a small town but starts with city walls so everything is cramped and perfect for the macedonians to choke your army to death

[Slaists]

he probably used spies if he was able to attack corinth. although, if that were the case, I will have gained some new respect for him. Corinth was always a murder hole every time I have besieged it. If I recall, its a small town but starts with city walls so everything is cramped and perfect for the macedonians to choke your army to death

A spy opening the doors 3 times in a row? & no reloading involved?

As to Corinth, he said, he took it after 2 field battles. So, Macedonian troops were mostly destroyed.

[seleucid empire]

A spy opening the doors 3 times in a row? & no reloading involved?

As to Corinth, he said, he took it after 2 field battles. So, Macedonian troops were mostly destroyed.

reloading wont give you a different outcome. If the spy fails to open it and you reload, he will fail to open it again. Dunno why tho, maybe the chance of a certain spy opening a settlement is determined at the beginning of the turn?

[Entropy Judge]

No, Macedon doesn't usually fall that quickly - they tend to hold onto Demetrios and Chalkis for a while, and Mytilene usually gets a FM teleported there or something, because I've had games where it's the last stand for the Makedonians until they get run out by the Seleukids or Pontos.

Pella does usually fall in the first turn, though, thanks to Epirote Elephants.

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

I give most large, significant cities in Hellas and the east Pella included stone walls

[The_Judge]

A little oversight:
- Spring of 272: The Epeirote spy enters Pella, he opens the gate and Pyrrhos can enter the city to have his city battle. Immediately after that Pyrrhos lays siege to Demetrias. The Epeirote spy is not able to help him anymore in that turn.
- Summer of 272: Pyrrhos enters Demetrias using rams.
- Fall of 272: The Epeirote spy enters Korinthos, but fails to open the gate. Pyrrhos lays siege to Korinthos and has to wait one turn.
- Winter of 272: A second Macedonian army has arrived by ship. Pyrrhos has to choose whether to enter Korinthos or to attack the reinforcement army. He chooses to attack the reinforcement army and by that he causes a field battle. During the field battle Pyrrhos destroys the reinforcement army first and then he destroys the biggest part of the main Korinthian army that has come to the rescue. The Macedonian survivors flee to Korinthos. Pyrrhos immediately goes to Korinthos where the gates are open. Pyrrhos sacrifices his cheap troops to defeat the guards and to capture the gate. Having captured the gate he sends his elite troops to beat the Macedonian troops at the town center. Then he sends his elite troops back to the gate to slaughter the remaining Macedonians on the city walls that are still trying to recapture the gate.

[Slaists]

A little oversight:
- Spring of 272: The Epeirote spy enters Pella, he opens the gate and Pyrrhos can enter the city to have his city battle. Immediately after that Pyrrhos lays siege to Demetrias. The Epeirote spy is not able to help him anymore in that turn.
- Summer of 272: Pyrrhos enters Demetrias using rams.
- Fall of 272: The Epeirote spy enters Korinthos, but fails to open the gate. Pyrrhos lays siege to Korinthos and has to wait one turn.
- Winter of 272: A second Macedonian army has arrived by ship. Pyrrhos has to choose whether to enter Korinthos or to attack the reinforcement army. He chooses to attack the reinforcement army and by that he causes a field battle. During the field battle Pyrrhos destroys the reinforcement army first and then he destroys the biggest part of the main Korinthian army that has come to the rescue. The Macedonian survivors flee to Korinthos. Pyrrhos immediately goes to Korinthos where the gates are open. Pyrrhos sacrifices his cheap troops to defeat the guards and to capture the gate. Having captured the gate he sends his elite troops to beat the Macedonian troops at the town center. Then he sends his elite troops back to the gate to slaughter the remaining Macedonians on the city walls that are still trying to recapture the gate.

How did your Pyrrhos get from Pella to Demetrias on the first turn? If I take Pella, all my Pyrrhos is able to do on the same turn is reach the border of the province of Demetrias, not the city itself. Oh, campaign difficulty might cause the move-points difference [less move points on VH for the human player]. What difficulty were you playing on?

But yes, I like to keep my elephants: it feels kind of like the signature of Pyrrhos. I get the cash (to pay for ellies) by enslaving those naughty Macedonians (and Romans)

p.s. I just checked, in order to reach Demetrias [on the same turn] after taking Pella you have to be playing Easy campaign difficulty. On Medium, Pyrrhus' move points run out right before the city [maybe it's possible to stretch it a bit if you separate Pyrrhus out from the stack before the city; besiege with him and then draw the rest of the army as reinforcements; but I think, in that case the rest of the army won't have enough move points to get in since the gen won't be boosting them. Easy would also explain the high success rate of your spy.

Anyway, any AI faction will appear "weak" on those settings

[seleucid empire]

p.s. I just checked, in order to reach Demetrias [on the same turn] after taking Pella you have to be playing Easy campaign difficulty. On Medium, Pyrrhus' move points run out right before the city [maybe it's possible to stretch it a bit if you separate Pyrrhus out from the stack before the city; besiege with him and then draw the rest of the army as reinforcements; but I think, in that case the rest of the army won't have enough move points to get in since the gen won't be boosting them. Easy would also explain the high success rate of your spy.

Anyway, any AI faction will appear "weak" on those settings

not sure about that, I didnt notice any significant movement increases or bonuses and I have tried most of the factions on M, H and VH

Are you playing with realistic movement points? if your playing with realistic movement points, then your early game will seem to go by very quickly. If you have realistic movement and you dont disband elephants, you can potentially take Pella and Demetrius in one turn

[The_Judge]

I disbanded the elephant unit for financial reasons.

[seleucid empire]

I disbanded the elephant unit for financial reasons.

you could have taken pella first and then disbanded them tho

[The_Judge]

I still use the original EB movement points.

There is a second Epeirote army more to the south. I used them to help Pyrrhos to gain some siege points (rams). Most of the units that conquered Pella ran out of the necessary movement points.

I do not know why Macedon puts all its eggs in the same basket (Korinthos).

[Slaists]

I still use the original EB movement points.

There is a second Epeirote army more to the south. I used them to help Pyrrhos to gain some siege points (rams). Most of the units that conquered Pella ran out of the necessary movement points.

I do not know why Macedon puts all its eggs in the same basket (Korinthos).

Macedon is prepping for a war with Greeks. If human played Epeiros defeats Macedon in the North [takes Pella and Demetrias] and then brokers peace, Macedon AI almost surely goes to war with KH (and usually wins if left alone...). I suppose, EB has scripted this so that it reflects the historical progression of Pyrrhos [he did take control of Macedon in 286 BC, but was swiftly kicked out a couple years later].

[Petite Wolf]

Is it possible that the battle difficulty aided in your quick destroying of them? It's possible that Medium - or even Hard - is far too easy for you, and results in you being able to slaughter an AI army with ease. Battle difficulty can have a big impact on the way your campaigns turn out. Hell, battle difficulty is the reason I abandoned my recent Casse campaign. Every battle I fought was far too easy and it made the campaign no fun.

But enough of me rambling. Just thought I'd ask if battle difficulty could have played a role in their swift demise.

[Slaists]

Is it possible that the battle difficulty aided in your quick destroying of them? It's possible that Medium - or even Hard - is far too easy for you, and results in you being able to slaughter an AI army with ease. Battle difficulty can have a big impact on the way your campaigns turn out. Hell, battle difficulty is the reason I abandoned my recent Casse campaign. Every battle I fought was far too easy and it made the campaign no fun.

But enough of me rambling. Just thought I'd ask if battle difficulty could have played a role in their swift demise.

The battle difficulty that EB's team recommends is M since that is the only one where their designed unit balance works. On H/VH one sees oddities like the AI's cavalry eating through a phalanx in a straight frontal charge, etc. Then again, H/VH are not that hard either if one starts to avoid melee. The difficulty bonuses affect AI's attack (+3 on H, +7 on VH), not defense and armor: so, missile and cavalry-charge away...

That +7 attack bonus on VH is especially dis-balancing. EB has lower (than the vanilla) attack values and elevated defense across the board for all units (to make the battles last longer and allow for use of tactics in the field). So, +7 to AI lower tier unit attack makes them into assault elites...

Again, the AI can be beat on any battle difficulty. VH just takes away unit balance and shifts the focus more towards missiles and cavalry charges.