China-Canada Trade - people becoming too emotional?

[nameless]

Not sure if this is the right place but it's linked to several political things that are currently happening.

Something I've been noticing a lot in the past few years is that as I pass by forums and blogs I see a lot of people spewing rhetorical things such as "Israel is evil and must die", "Harper will destroy Canada" and "China will take over the world."Almost reminds me of the Roman Senate where a Roman senator after every speech ended with, "on a side note Carthage must be destroyed" despite it having not anything to do with the conversation.

I mean has the internet with it's massive amount of information and misinformation are people just becoming too emotional? Funny thing is in the outside world I very rarely see those types of people which makes me wonder if it's a matter of the minority being loud.

For example..

Nexen which is an oil and gas company based in Canada being bought out by a Chinese state-owned corporation and Progress from a Malaysian corporation.

People are crying foul that the government is selling out the country (Again another Harper will destroy Canada even though he's been around for what? 9 years now?) and seems to give the impression that said countries would start sending troops to occupy them which makes zero sense. And aside from the fact that said Countries would continue to honor the current status of corporations (IE. Social programs, maintaining head office in current locations)

Then people are saying that the resources should stay in Canada and start talking about developing it themselves and fantasizing that some canadian company with billions of capital will come forth (which doesn't exist otherwise it would've happened already). Another example that Canadians should refine the oil themselves yet no North American corporation has built one since the 80's aside from expansion.

Then there's the Chinese-Canadian trade agreement that's been in the works for almost 20 years which means that the Liberal party was the one that was working on it in the first place and the Conservatives are looking to finish it. People are crying that it's another sell-out yet it's not a one way street and China has always looked into pouring more and more capital into Canada. That and it's to also protect Canadian companies operating in China and vice versa.

Am I looking too much into things or has the media gotten out of control that people are so emotional? (Almost reminds me of Tomorrow Never Dies Elliot Carter who was stated to be capable of destroying countries with a single broadcast).

[hellheaven1987]

In China many view the actions of Canada are encouraged, or even pressed by United States.

[priam11]

We don't like foreigners but then again, who does?

[nameless]

We don't like foreigners but then again, who does?

The thing though is that both America and Canada are countries, unlike the Old World, that were founded by immigrants to begin with. Immigrants were what made Canada and America to begin with so it's a part of the foundation. You can't deny them.

That should tell you a thing.

It does and you can't help but shake in disbelief. A lot of these things I learned travelling overseas or even in Junior/Senior High School (it was part of the curriculum in the 90's) so I can't help but wonder what those people were doing in that time.

[Thorn777]

It does and you can't help but shake in disbelief. A lot of these things I learned travelling overseas or even in Junior/Senior High School (it was part of the curriculum in the 90's) so I can't help but wonder what those people were doing in that time.

There must have been plenty of profitable companies in Canada, specially in natural ressources, that must have raked in hundreds of billions of $ over the years. However as it is so often in the western world, it has been private companies with a few handsful of shareholders raking it all in. Its money leaving the balance-sheet of the companies and on their way to St Barth and such places. Its not like there is real money making incentives left for the real haves.

Now a heavily Chinese govt endorced company comes in to make the profit of Canadian natural ressources. And well thats all OK and critising that is racism or xenophobia because god forbid the Canadian govt would do the same thing and explore its own ressources. That would be racist-communist...

[Condottiere 40K]

I'd only start worrying once they deploy IRBMs in Ottawa.

[Thorn777]

fantasizing that some canadian company with billions of capital will come forth (which doesn't exist

That should tell you a thing.

[Hakomar]

Hmm, but primarily European Immigrants, with Southern & Eastern Europeans being used mainly for labour. You have to remember that Sinophobia has always been present in the U.S., I think at one point in history they banned East Asians from coming to the U.S. It was a primarily white, European affair, and so mistrust towards the Chinese hasn't been eroded due to the U.S. not having a high proportion of East Asian immigrants. Add to the fact that China are the godless commies, as it were, and the up and coming power that threatens to eclipse the 'West' and you have three reasons for the distrust of China. To make it four, you can talk about the horrid human rights abuses that occur, etc.

[Imperial]

U.S. not having a high proportion of East Asian immigrants.

I guess you've never been to California.

[nameless]

. Add to the fact that China are the godless commies, as it were, and the up and coming power that threatens to eclipse the 'West' and you have three reasons for the distrust of China.

Never mind the fact that China isn't even communist to begin with but a one party system.

To make it four, you can talk about the horrid human rights abuses that occur, etc.

Honestly every country IMO is guilty of human rights abuse. I've been in China many times and have lots of friends who go overseas there to teach and such and they love it (Aside from pollution but that's a different story).

I mean look at countries like Libya and Egypt. Why were those dictators in power so long? Because the US ensured it so long as it served their interests. The second the people rose up against it they had no choice but to cut ties.

Given the fact that they have one of the largest populations in the 3rd largest country with a very diverse culture in the world then yes it's expected that your going to have some issues with control. That is unavoidable.

However that's still no excuse to act like your all high and mighty. It was only a few centuries ago when the West sent troops to occupy various parts of China and treated the Chinese as second class citizens in their own country. The West is the last group that should be lecturing on that.

[Hakomar]

Never mind the fact that China isn't even communist to begin with but a one party system.



Honestly every country IMO is guilty of human rights abuse. I've been in China many times and have lots of friends who go overseas there to teach and such and they love it (Aside from pollution but that's a different story).

Perhaps I should have put that in sarcastic quotes. It's not my personal view, but I am trying to render a stereotype.

[Nikephoros Kapatsos]

I encourage my government to have more trade with China. Although I don't understand why this is an issue. I think it's just a simple ignorant backlash, generated from media. Too bad I didn't even hear this on the news.

I guess you've never been to California.

Probably hasn't seen the Canadian Demographics either.

[Treize]

"Israel is evil and must die"

True

"Harper will destroy Canada"

True

"China will take over the world."

Not too sure...

[Hakomar]

Well, I did say proportionally; the Chinese role doesn't quite measure up to the European one in population, leadership etc. I'm not denying that on the West coast etc. there aren't load of Chinese people, all I'm saying is that just because it's a country of immigrants, one shouldn't be shocked if there is Sinophobia because it doesn't mean there is an equal proportion of ethnicities in the immigrants.

[Nikephoros Kapatsos]

Well, I did say proportionally; the Chinese role doesn't quite measure up to the European one in population, leadership etc. I'm not denying that on the West coast etc. there aren't load of Chinese people, all I'm saying is that just because it's a country of immigrants, one shouldn't be shocked if there is Sinophobia because it doesn't mean there is an equal proportion of ethnicities in the immigrants.

The problem is not ethnicity, just the fear something like this will affect the average Canadian. It's not whenever or not the company is no longer in whom's hands, but in example what will it mean to jobs... Like nameless said just the reception from an ill-informed, worrisome population.

then Harper is the most incompetent vilain ever if He need more than 9 years to destroy Canada ... how long would it take to up a country with 3 cities and a bunch of polar-bears anyway.

Well we must all agree Harper is indolent. It will take a few more years before, those middle class whom stood on Harper's side for the years to see how fail he is. Oh and wait a while for a few more polar bears to die, then the environmentalists will strike back.

[DisgruntledGoat]

The problem is not ethnicity, just the fear something like this will affect the average Canadian. It's not whenever or not the company is no longer in whom's hands, but in example what will it mean to jobs... Like nameless said just the reception from an ill-informed, worrisome population.

But its not a baseless fear. It's something very real that isn't confined to Chinese interests. Its when ANY foreign company takes over business in Canada. Look at US Steel Canada (formerly Stelco) for a prime example. Or Essar Steel Algoma (formerly Algoma Steel). Two large Canadian steel providers taken over by foreigner companies. Jobs have been cut and capital actually LEAVES the country to line the pockets of others. With a net negative impact for Canadian citizens. So yes, Canadians should be weary of Chinese take-overs and capital.

[Condottiere 40K]

It's probably true that if the Japanese had played a more canny diplomatic game, China would have collapsed into a combination of semi-independent warlord fiefdoms with Europeans either directly or indirectly controlling significant portions.

That's of course alternate history. Actually, WW1 actually may have saved China from dissolution.

[Menelik_I]

"Harper will destroy Canada"

then Harper is the most incompetent vilain ever if He need more than 9 years to destroy Canada ... how long would it take to up a country with 3 cities and a bunch of polar-bears anyway.

[nameless]

then Harper is the most incompetent vilain ever if He need more than 9 years to destroy Canada ... how long would it take to up a country with 3 cities and a bunch of polar-bears anyway.

Dude are you dissing our polar bears?

Perhaps I should have put that in sarcastic quotes. It's not my personal view, but I am trying to render a stereotype.

Beauty of the internet

But its not a baseless fear. It's something very real that isn't confined to Chinese interests. Its when ANY foreign company takes over business in Canada. Look at US Steel Canada (formerly Stelco) for a prime example. Or Essar Steel Algoma (formerly Algoma Steel). Two large Canadian steel providers taken over by foreigner companies. Jobs have been cut and capital actually LEAVES the country to line the pockets of others. With a net negative impact for Canadian citizens. So yes, Canadians should be weary of Chinese take-overs and capital.

Which is why the government has to give an approval before the take over and the Chinese have already stated that they would honor Nexen's current social obligations and its head office.

Another thing I should point out is a friend of mine who works at a clinic spoke with a employee from Nexen who said that they're actually looking forward to the takeover mainly because.

1. Nexen has tons of projects
3. Nexen lacks the capital to do any of their projects
3. As a result a lot of their employees are just sitting at their desks twiddling their thumbs because the company has to do one project at a time. If China moves in with its capital, instead of doing one project they'd be able to do dozens of projects at the same time.

I find this part interesting because so far from these polls and opinions I don't think I've seen anybody ask the employees at Nexen how they feel.

Now a heavily Chinese govt endorced company comes in to make the profit of Canadian natural ressources. And well thats all OK and critising that is racism or xenophobia because god forbid the Canadian govt would do the same thing and explore its own ressources. That would be racist-communist...

I'm not sure what the issue really is. They are coming in to buy a company that focuses on exploring and drilling for oil.

At the end of the day, they still have to follow all the environmental and legal laws that exist in Canada. If they falter, they'll get fined just like any other company for breaking that law.

Also at the end of the day, all the oil they extract they still have to pay the required taxes and royalties on it which goes back to the Canadian government.

Besides, if this deal goes through, CNOOC would not be the first state-enterprised company to do something like this.

Well we must all agree Harper is indolent. It will take a few more years before, those middle class whom stood on Harper's side for the years to see how fail he is. Oh and wait a while for a few more polar bears to die, then the environmentalists will strike back.

For what though? So far he's done all the promises that he promised to do and out of all the parties he was able to cut back on the MP's pensions which IMO is a pretty good darn thing. Canada's economy has done ok so far given the crap that's happening across the globe but Harper has zero control over what happens in Europe and the US which is why it's critical that he tries to diversify the trading market to rely less on the US.

[DisgruntledGoat]

Another thing I should point out is a friend of mine who works at a clinic spoke with a employee from Nexen who said that they're actually looking forward to the takeover mainly because.

1. Nexen has tons of projects
3. Nexen lacks the capital to do any of their projects
3. As a result a lot of their employees are just sitting at their desks twiddling their thumbs because the company has to do one project at a time. If China moves in with its capital, instead of doing one project they'd be able to do dozens of projects at the same time.

That's assuming that chinese capital will actually enter the country. Seeing as I work at one of the above mentioned steel mills, Indian capital certainly isn't entering the country. Why should we assume that chinese capital will.