A stroll in the park with Isengard

**Accius** · October 30, 2012, 07:29 AM

I began my first ever game as Isengard VH/VH with trepidation. This forum had led me to believe how difficult a campaign it was. And indeed, my first 5 turns or so, I was mildly depressed about being locked in to a protracted conflict with Rohan, who refused a cease fire with me. So I began what any good servant of Saruman would do, and gathered up my troops to besiege the closest Rohirrim town.

But then… ha! I spoke with Gondor, who generously accepted an alliance! Rohan declared peace in turn. I then proposed alliance with Rohan too. With my southern front secure, I expanded rapidly, grabbing all the neutral lands east and west of me. With Saruman at the head of just one army and all of my towns growing rapidly with low taxes; with peace on every front and a massive construction boom, I ended up around turn 50 with an extremely consolidated empire.

I allied with Rhun, then with the Silvan Elves, then with the OotMM. The usual dynamic of my past 25 or so campaigns, which has more or less consisted of good vs evil, had been radically altered. With Rohan’s sole enemy as Mordor, Gondor is able to almost fully concentrate on Harad and keep it in check. An invasion has not yet been declared, and I don’t know how my string of alliances will affect one when it comes. Will Rhun attack Gondor when both are my allies? Time will tell.

In the meantime, a few unfortunate factions have been left out of the loop, and will undoubtedly be crushed in the wake. Certainly the High Elves, but most notably Eriador, who as I write are being crushed by my hordes – extremely easily I might add.

And I so suppose that is the general crux of this post. Isengard on VH/VH as so far been a piece of cake. The most relaxed campaign I’ve ever had, in fact!

Accius

**FC Groningen** · October 30, 2012, 07:51 AM

Yeah, I suspect that by playing this way, the moment you're facing the High Elves and Rohan/Gondor, you'll get a much harder time.

**Accius** · October 30, 2012, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by FC Groningen

Yeah, I suspect that by playing this way, the moment you're facing the High Elves and Rohan/Gondor, you'll get a much harder time.

High Elves you're probably right.. but they're so isolated that I don't see them mounting much of a defense.

I think I'm going to throw aside my evil tendencies and keep the Gondor/Rohan alliance going. Saruman has almost full respect

**eugenioso** · October 30, 2012, 10:47 AM

... you mean that by using every single gamey tactic in the game ("oh sure mr uruk hai of isengard! we would love to be friends with you! screw the fact that your cousin is currently on display at my headrack and that you are wearing my late wife´s skin as an umbrella") you made isengard easy? what a suprise

when us forumites say isengard is hard is because we dont exploit the game engine like you did so diligently. we start at war with rohan and at the most we could truce them, ally with the dark powers sure, but we dont ally with rohan and gondor. sure, lets all be allies and live in peace forever!

... no. just no.

**Accius** · October 30, 2012, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by eugenioso

... you mean that by using every single gamey tactic in the game ("oh sure mr uruk hai of isengard! we would love to be friends with you! screw the fact that your cousin is currently on display at my headrack and that you are wearing my late wife´s skin as an umbrella") you made isengard easy? what a suprise

when us forumites say isengard is hard is because we dont exploit the game engine like you did so diligently. we start at war with rohan and at the most we could truce them, ally with the dark powers sure, but we dont ally with rohan and gondor. sure, lets all be allies and live in peace forever!

... no. just no.

Wow... sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Since when is forging an alliance a gamey tactic? That is news to me. And considering I've been a "forumite" longer than you have - 2 years longer in fact - you'd think I'd have picked up on that by now.

A gamey tactic is something that the AI doesn't do. The AI does forge alliances. But I mean that's besides the point. The point is that reading dozens of threads, such as this one, http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=529990 built up my expectations for a suicidal struggle, which as it turns out I was neatly able to circumvent without cheating.

**Gallus** · October 31, 2012, 01:13 PM

A gamey tactic is something that the AI doesn't do. The AI does forge alliances. But I mean that's besides the point. The point is that reading dozens of threads, such as this one, http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=529990 built up my expectations for a suicidal struggle, which as it turns out I was neatly able to circumvent without cheating.

Isengard is no Late Era Kwarezm(sp?) where it's almost impossible to win. There are no factions like that in TATW. As the matter of fact, if you don't play according to the lore almost all factions are quite easy. You'll find a ton of threads saying "Gondor is impossible" because most players like to play "lore accurately" and don't want to take out Harad in the first 20 turns. But in your case allying with Gondor as Isengard is not too far-fetched. In 2980 TA Isengard was still neutral.

**DrDragun** · October 31, 2012, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by eugenioso

when us forumites say isengard is hard is because we dont exploit the game engine like you did so diligently.

I agree with you in spirit, but EVERYONE breaks the lore to exploit the game in one fashion or another to win on VH/VH, whether it's manipulation of governor trait triggers or manipulation of the siege AI

**Incomitatus** · October 31, 2012, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by DrDragun

I agree with you in spirit, but EVERYONE breaks the lore to exploit the game in one fashion or another to win on VH/VH, whether it's manipulation of governor trait triggers or manipulation of the siege AI

Heck, the game breaks with Lore, starting when it does!

But if any faction should be given a break for doing things 'against Lore' it should be Isengard, because Saruman is clearly nothing if not a tricky and deceitful devil!

**Gallus** · October 30, 2012, 08:16 AM

Wait until you face High Elves

**Salah-ad-deen** · October 30, 2012, 10:54 AM

Its up to you how you want to play. If Accius wants to make an alliance with Gondor and Rohan then there is nothing wrong with it, albeit its not lore accurate. Its up to you how you want to win the campaign as that is the main objective at the end of the day.

**Swad** · October 31, 2012, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by Salah-ad-deen

Its up to you how you want to play. If Accius wants to make an alliance with Gondor and Rohan then there is nothing wrong with it, albeit its not lore accurate. Its up to you how you want to win the campaign as that is the main objective at the end of the day.

It seems Lore-accurate to me, to be honest I see why Rohan would be at war with Rohan in the given time frame when the game starts. It's into the beginning of 3000 in the third age that Rohan finally turns on Saruman, and this is after the many years it takes for the in-game faction leader to die and the position transfers to Theoden.

**Zimmy** · October 30, 2012, 02:18 PM

But he's saying the reason you think it's so easy is because you did not play the way most people who say it's hard do. Go to war with Rohan, make no alliances with 'good' factions, and you'll be making a 'too damn hard' thread aswell.

**Accius** · October 30, 2012, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Ecthelion II

But he's saying the reason you think it's so easy is because you did not play the way most people who say it's hard do.

Lol... that is essentially a non-statement. Of course it's going to be harder if you try to play as Gondor only producing militia, rejecting alliances and fighting every one at once. There are a million rules you could set yourself to make it harder. But what's the point?

What I'm saying is that it's absurd to judge how people play to beat the game based on your personal and entirely subjective standards.

For what it's worth, it is considerably harder now that I am fighting the HE. Damn Elves back-stabbed me. I've lost Saruman!

**FC Groningen** · October 30, 2012, 02:24 PM

Eventually you have the face Rohan as the victory conditions demand it. Of course you can ignore those, but I see no objectively relevant goal to work towards otherwise.

**Incomitatus** · October 31, 2012, 11:41 AM

I can just imagine a magical recording of Saruman's Voice playing all over Orthanc to the toiling orcs in the forges...

"We are at war with Eriador, we have always been at war with Eriador. We are allies of Rohan, we have always been allies of Rohan. We are at war with Eriador... "

**Accius** · October 31, 2012, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Incomitatus

I can just imagine a magical recording of Saruman's Voice playing all over Orthanc to the toiling orcs in the forges...

"We are at war with Eriador, we have always been at war with Eriador. We are allies of Rohan, we have always been allies of Rohan. We are at war with Eriador... "

If anything, it just gets repetitive to play a campaign the same way every time, good vs evil etc. Isengard is like the Byzantines, in the middle of it all, in between two huge factions, Saruman doing his own thing.

**brasswire** · October 31, 2012, 03:21 PM

Heck it's still moderately impressive that you got Alliance with Gondor and Rohan so early seeing as Isengard starts the game with no diplomats and no building that can produce them.

**Incomitatus** · October 31, 2012, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by brasswire

Heck it's still moderately impressive that you got Alliance with Gondor and Rohan so early seeing as Isengard starts the game with no diplomats and no building that can produce them.

Grima is a diplomat.