Conquistadors's cannibalism

[PikeStance]

I think some Spanish report dating 17th century.

I take it then, that you do not recall any specific primary document(s). ???

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[TheNasoRomaLost]

Qouteing me

Aztec were not the only one to preform human sacrifice. Many perhaps the most of them did.

So what? Do you dispute that the Aztecs sacrificed non-Aztecs and the result was hundreds of thousands of native allies for Cortez? If not then you agree with the point.

Does that book have a primary source? There are no accounts I know of which indicted Cortez for that; Cortez was well provided for by very friendly native allies who were sick of the Aztecs.

The Conquistadores were in very fertile land with local allies; I fail to see why they would resort to cannibalism; can you provide any example of people resorting to cannibalism when not far from friendly supplies of food? Let alone people who were disgusted by human sacrifice (and the cannibalism that goes with it) doing it?

[Petrucci]

^ Whos talking about Cortez? Have you even tried to read all posts before decide to post yours? Cannibalism might happened when Conquistadors explored shores of California IIRC. That book have many primary sources but I can't recall them,although I can post you link from ebay where you can buy this book for 3-4 $ http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spanish-Conq...-/221038510527
Fertile land in jungles of Amazon or rain forests outside of civilization? Sure if you cultivate them 10 years, but they came hear to get rich and have adventure not to farm corn. True conquistadors(ones who explore and conquer new lands) was always short of food, famine killed the biggest number of them by far.

[Petrucci]

I take it then, that you do not recall any specific primary document(s). ???

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Not much but I found some traces in that book for sure,and they seemed credible to me. I might take book from library to quote my sources if you prefer.

[TheNasoRomaLost]

^ Whos talking about Cortez? Have you even tried to read all posts before decide to post yours? Cannibalism might happened when Conquistadors explored shores of California IIRC. That book have many primary sources but I can't recall them,although I can post you link from ebay where you can buy this book for 3-4 $ http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spanish-Conq...-/221038510527
Fertile land in jungles of Amazon or rain forests outside of civilization? Sure if you cultivate them 10 years, but they came hear to get rich and have adventure not to farm corn. True conquistadors(ones who explore and conquer new lands) was always short of food, famine killed the biggest number of them by far.

In both South and Mesoamerica the locals had great logistics. As for elsewhere

http://www.amazon.com/Conquistadores.../dp/B0007IVNYC

They shut down cannibalism where they found it.

[Diocle]

Whithout serious primary historical sources, maybe Archeological, reports from some writer of the XVI or XVII century who was present to the facts, or something like a good old historical source of any kind, IMHO, this discussion is meaningless, all could be cannibals: Vikings, Romans, Germans during The 30YW, Swedish during 30YW or The Great Northern Wars, Russians, Mongols, Arabs, Italians, French, British......all the human beings can be cannibals....and then? What do we have? Nothing! Absolutely nothing!

IMO: No Sources = No History!

[Petrucci]

^Ok , Ill go to f library and get book then quote u sources. Will this make you all hapy?

[TheNasoRomaLost]

^Ok , Ill go to f library and get book then quote u sources. Will this make you all hapy?

Yes; and make sure it is actually about conquistadores and not settlers; the great campaigns were done in some of the best and most efficiently cultivated lands in the world with native allies supplying the conquistadores to the best of their abilities. For Cortez who I know a lot more about then Pizzaro they built dissassembled transported and rebuilt many brigs for him to help besiege Tenotchticlan. I'm mentioning that to try to get you to have a more realistic image of the Tlaxcalan logistical abilities which was wonderful by the standards of it's time (as was the Aztec logistical ability).

[PikeStance]

^Ok , Ill go to f library and get book then quote u sources. Will this make you all hapy?

I don't understand your anger here? You have made a claim and you expect everyone to accept it without so much of a primary source to back up something none of us have heard of until now. So calm it down,... In the end we will all be closer to the truth regardless what that may be.


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[Petrucci]

I don't understand your anger here? You have made a claim and you expect everyone to accept it without so much of a primary source to back up something none of us have heard of until now. So calm it down,... In the end we will all be closer to the truth regardless what that may be.


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In order to get book from that library I need to spend 2 hours in traffic jam,because the library is in the other end of the city So It's a lil' bit stressful situation

[Petrucci]

I was in library just to find out the book was already borrowed. No comment. Anyway Im not here to verify book I already read, Im here to get answer on my question. So reply if you know the answer.

[PikeStance]

I was in library just to find out the book was already borrowed. No comment. Anyway Im not here to verify book I already read, Im here to get answer on my question. So reply if you know the answer.

Given the fact your "source" appears to be the only source that is making that claim, I old say there is little or no evidence to support the claims in the book you read. In the OP, you referred to it as a rumor; this suggest that it was advance as a rumor in the book you noted earlier. I tend to believe it is an example of an elaborated story that got more fantastic with each re- telling.

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[Petrucci]

Given the fact your "source" appears to be the only source that is making that claim, I old say there is little or no evidence to support the claims in the book you read. In the OP, you referred to it as a rumor; this suggest that it was advance as a rumor in the book you noted earlier. I tend to believe it is an example of an elaborated story that got more fantastic with each re- telling.

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Can you clarify a bit I have hard time understanding you,and I don't want to reply wrong.
Might be, I never said this happened 100% but , it was possible.

[PikeStance]

Can you clarify a bit I have hard time understanding you,and I don't want to reply wrong.
Might be, I never said this happened 100% but , it was possible.

In your OP you stated it was a "rumor" which would suggest the "source" is most likely hearsay; and so I doubt that there is a primary account.


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[Shackleton]

I think with a question this specific with the sources available, the only option is speculation. I don't think, petrucci that we will be able to provide a primary source that gives a clear answer on this subject.

[ForVictory]

I don't know about canabalism but they surely bought syphlis to Europe with them after raping so many native women.

[Cyclops]

I don't know about canabalism

Aztec ritual cannibalism is well attested, a quick Google will give you all the sources you need starting with Cortes eyewitness account. Aztec nobles may have practised dietary cannibalism as well but this is more controversial.

but they surely bought syphilis to Europe with them after raping so many native women.

IIRC syphilis was a common childhood skin disease in the pre-Columbian Caribbean basin; getting the rash as a kid made the native Americans immune to other forms including the insidious genital version. For the Spaniards to contract the genital form suggests at least one of them raped a child.

[ForVictory]

IIRC syphilis was a common childhood skin disease in the pre-Columbian Caribbean basin; getting the rash as a kid made the native Americans immune to other forms including the insidious genital version. For the Spaniards to contract the genital form suggests at least one of them raped a child.

Just horrifying. Weren't the crew that Columbus bought with him were sentenced criminals because nobody else was sane enough to go with him to the edge of the earth?

[Cyclops]

I just realised I misread the thread title., surely if there was evidence of conquistadors turning cannibal it could be produced? Its a sensational claim.

I know some Europeans who were taken in by Australian Aborigines and become acculturated may have participated in ritual cannibalism that some indigenous people practised (usually a funereal ritual, people took a little bite of grandad to commemorate him). It may be a lost Spaniard did likewise?

Just horrifying. Weren't the crew that Columbus bought with him were sentenced criminals because nobody else was sane enough to go with him to the edge of the earth?

Columbus was a Genoese contractor working for the Spanish crown, and his crew were IIRC nearly all Spanish subjects. I think a few were crooks who accepted an amnesty offer but sailors in the Med and Atlantic had to be tough individuals used to violence and deprivation. I'm trying to think of a modern equivalent, maybe military contractors? They were all guys on three boats for months and keen to acquire women for sex, this led to transactions with the Arawacks at first but later there was horrible violence and rape by Columbus' crew who recorded it in their diaries.

Pre modern ideas about age of consent may have allowed sex with someone as young as 12-13, disgusting to us but normal in many societies.

That said I have done a quick Google on the subject and may well be wrong (my pre Columbian archaeology course was in 1988 and as often emerges when i post on these forums my info is out of date). I see there's theories Syphilis was an endemic skin disease in the New World and mutated when carried back to Europe to become venereal.

[Ludicus]

The origin of the word cannibal comes from the term Karib. Karib Indians, who were expanding out South America into the Lesser Antilles, before the arrival of Columbus.
"Cannibalism" is a western invention, tout court. Among the Indians in the 16th /17th centuries, cannibalism practices could be identified in death/warrior rites. Anthropophagy among the indigenous peoples was used by the European colonizers as justification for applying technologies of subjection, and preventive and punitive measures.

On a side note, cannibalism wasn't an exclusive to the so-called primitive peoples. In fact, Jean de Léry ( c.1534 -c 1613), in NAVIGATIONS IN BRASILIAM, QVAE ET AMERICA DICITVR ( Histoire d'un voyage faict la terre du Bresil) - full book here in Portuguese- - Viagem a terra do Brasil completo,
wrote about the events in Lyon and Auxerre in 1572 ( in English, reproduced in the book "The Great ocean of Knowledge, the Influence of Travel Literature on the Work of John Locke", Ann Talbot, chapter 5 " Cannibalism and Absolutism", page 96.
Léry recounts the story how in Lyon the Catholic mobs stripped the fat of their victims and sold it to the highest bidder, while at Auxerre they grilled and ate a human heart. For Lery, the mobs that massacred the Huguenots were worse than the Tupinamba because they "killed kinsmen, neighbours' and compatriots", while in Brazil they killed only the enemies - and says " One need not go beyond one's own country , nor as far as America to see such monstrous and prodigious things"