Skutatoi. -merged with unit suggestion

[Shadow_Imperator]

Just browsing the TW forums I dug up one of my old posts which some people here might interesting, I'd like to bring this to Militiaman's and Alpaca's attention:

Menaulatoi: Heavy infantry armed with a hybrid Pike/Falx weapon (Called the Menaulion), the menaulion was very thick spear like weapon, taken whole from young oak or cornel saplings and capped by a long blade (45-50 cm). Menaulatoi could use their weapons to form a phalanx as use the emaulion as an effective weapon for cleaving infantrymen, cavalrymen and horses alike. The menaulatoi had to be used by especially strong infantrymen (called Menaulatoi after their weapon) and was often deployed against enemy Kataphraktoi and other heavy cavalry.


Scutatus: Basically the REAL equivilent of MTW Byzantine Infantry. The Scutatus wore pointed steel helmets and a mail shirts, they also wore gauntlets and greaves to protect the hands and shins. The scutatus carried large round/oval shields (much like those seen equiped of Roman Praetorians). They were armed with any combination of the following, a lance (or Byzantine kontaria), a sword (Byzantine xiphos or curve bladed sabre like paramerion) and/or an axe (Byzantine pelekia) with a blade at one side and a spike at the other.

I realise the Scutatus is basically the Skutatoi, but it would be good to see either, the Skutatoi be given a sword as a secondary weapon, or a sword armed 'Byzantine Infantry' type unit, armed with sword and sheild, much like the description.

Please if you think of units, post em!

On that note, are Billmen in? Also, an MTW like version of spear armed 'Saracen Infantry' would be nice too!

[GeneralLee]

A Feudal swordmen unit would be usefull. I added one by using the Feudal foot knight image and data, I increased unit size and decreased attack / defense.

[Ciaran S]

A Feudal swordmen unit would be usefull.

Same here.
My proposition: give the Feudal Men at Arms swords and make Feudal sergeants the standart spear unit. The way it is, sergeants are superfluos (weaker stats plus a longer build-up) and the catholic factions sorely lack a sword-armed unit type.

[Shadow_Imperator]

Yeah I'm trying to recall MTW, Militia sergents had axe-headed polearms, feudal sergents had spears, chivalry sergents also had spears, and an impressive shield to boot, chivalric men at arms had swords and shield, I just can't recall feudal men at arms.... Hmmm, I can't seem to recall the unit at all, calls for a reinstall I think...

Order foot soldiers for the Crusader States and maybe even Teutonic Knights would be good addition too!

[Ciaran S]

Feudal Men at Arms in MTW have swords as well. There´s a system there: sword-armed infantry are called Men at Arms, spear-armed are called Sergeants, at least as far as the Catholic factions are concerned. I´m not going to argue about naming conventions, but at the moment there is a gap in most Nothern European armies that needs filling, and the sergeants in their current state are useless.

[paulus]

What you could do is offer several versions of a unit, one spear-armed and one sword armed. So you have Machaira Skutatoi and Logchoskutatoi, the former sword-armed and the latter spear-armed. That way you can reflect the versatility of the unit a little better. You could probably figure out some way to do it with men-at-arms as well.

On a side note, how about some macemen? I don't know if they're accurate or not, but I loved them in Lords of the Realm 2 way back in the day. Armor would be basically equivalent to the feudal sergeant, but a mace instead of a spear, and fast-moving. Make a good brigand unit too, or a castle assault unit.

[Clibby]

I was thinking, instead of the crusader states and tthe teutonic order, you make the units available to their proper faction via a monastary and some sort of military building. The two orders never really held much land and it would free up the slots for say a papal faction and another one. They would be similar to the Knights of Santiago and it would create more diversity among the factions.

[Shaun]

I was thinking, instead of the crusader states and tthe teutonic order, you make the units available to their proper faction via a monastary and some sort of military building. The two orders never really held much land and it would free up the slots for say a papal faction and another one. They would be similar to the Knights of Santiago and it would create more diversity among the factions.

Good idea, MTW2 uses a similar system, but they use guilds instead of monastries.

Well me not being an expert on Byzantium, but i do think that they need a good sword unit, and so do the catholic factions. Maybe add anatolian inf, or Latin auxilluaries for later eras.

[Cayo_Julio_Cesar]

Good idea, MTW2 uses a similar system, but they use guilds instead of monastries.

That would be very good, so the player could chose one of the orders and use it as its soliders, with the condition of a very very expensive building, say like 30k florins, to make sure they'll use it on late game AND therefore you could add the foot knight version of each.

also in my very poor and humble opinion....i'd like see better horses , specially on crusader units , the Terrae Expugnanade horses are the best i've seen so far, not for the armor and such but becouse they look very realistic.

[Ettore]

Some suggestions

Make admiral faster so ships will be faster with teh 4 sfy script this will make ships more realistic...
On the ship argoment tehre is a historic problem the great power in that age were the italian galley fleets: without an italian faction those fleets dont exist.

[Lucius_Galba]

Yea the fleets should be faster, so that you can reach the New World quicker and have fun destroying the Aztecs.

Scottish Feudal Knight all the way with a hint of the English Longbow

[Ettore]

....no to new world but to Holy Lands. The fleets could carry an army bu England to Outmar lands in less then an year not in 3 or 4
Before a to make a sarcastic reply it is better ask because a suggestion is made if you dont want to make a flame post

Other suggestion
I read that to have a crusade effect ( thought they thought to an horde use) developers thought to give money (50000 florins, not victory - glory- points as in original medioval) with a script. To stop early wars through Catholic nations (in MeTW there was Pope intervention to stop that) are they thinking to a money penalty or a victor points penalty script?

[SicilianVespers]

If you are looking for a sword-armed unit for Byzantium, I would suggest using Spatharioi, instead of making up names. The Spatharioi protected the Strategoi in the Themes. There were also Spatharioi in the Tagma, but I cant recall how they were actually named right now.

[Shadow_Imperator]

If you are looking for a sword-armed unit for Byzantium, I would suggest using Spatharioi, instead of making up names. The Spatharioi protected the Strategoi in the Themes. There were also Spatharioi in the Tagma, but I cant recall how they were actually named right now.

Spatharioi Tagmata maybe?

[Shadow_Imperator]

I suppose that name would fit, since the Roman 'Spatha' was adopted and later changed to satisfy Byzantine Requirements. Spathoi in Greek? Spatharioi sounds good though... It beats 'Byzantine Infantry'.... :\

[Shadow_Imperator]

Just a concise recommendation, I would suggest giving the Skutatoi a second weapon ability and give them swords. This would make them truely versatile...

[DaVinci]

Just a concise recommendation, I would suggest giving the Skutatoi a second weapon ability and give them swords. This would make them truely versatile...

... isn't possible as long they are spearmen-infantry. Only javellin or phalanx infantry-units can have second weapon sword (or knife).

[Shadow_Imperator]

Ah, so I'm guessing there is a difference between Phalanx and non Phalanx spearmen then?

[DaVinci]

Ah, so I'm guessing there is a difference between Phalanx and non Phalanx spearmen then?

If you refer here to the Formation file, yes.

[Shadow_Imperator]

So what your saying, in a nutshell, is that Phalanx spearmen units can used swords as a secondary whilst plain spearmen without Phalanx ability cannot use swords as a secondary weapon?

Sure there isn't any way around it?