Do you max out Pleasure/Government buildings in every settlement?

[DrDragun]

I'm working on my core build for every city. Generally it goes as follows.


Culture (on conquers) > Roads > Mines > Farms > Markets > Administration (low priority)

IF NO GOVERNOR OR WEAK GOVERNOR

Brothels


Do any of you follow different builds, for example always maxing barracks or whatnot? Is there any benefit to getting public order bonuses over 150%?

As I play more campaigns, I find that I like to have most settlements without a governor as they almost always cost more money than they produce, so I almost always max out Brothels (which are 9000+ for the final tier). I think the payoff for this might be more than 100 turns, since it only gives 0.5% pop growth iirc.

Are there any buildings I'm missing? Is it better to not max Brothel/Administration in certain cases?

[Incomitatus]

As I play more campaigns, I find that I like to have most settlements without a governor as they almost always cost more money than they produce

I would humbly suggest that you are doing something wrong with your Governors, then. A decent Governor will at least pay for himself. A good Governor can double the income from a settlement near the capitol and much more as you move further away.

A great Governor can also add 5% to Growth (0.5% Growth bonus from Chivalry + 9 Squalor reduction), but that is rather rare, I will admit.

However, Governors don't grow themselves, you have to take care with them and know the triggers for the good revenue increasing traits.

[DrDragun]

Hmmm, the cost is 500/turn on wages/bodyguard upkeep. I find most settlements boosted by 80-150 gold with a Governor vs without, and I usually reject adoptions every turn until I at *least* get Smart/Skilled Bureaucrat or some combination of Understands Trade/Mining. So you're saying this boost could be 500% higher (to pay for himself) and that you can reliably farm the necessary traits up within a reasonably practical number of turns?

EDIT: I've been playing evil factions mostly for my last 3 campaigns.

[Incomitatus]

Hmmm, the cost is 500/turn on wages/bodyguard upkeep. I find most settlements boosted by 80-120 gold with a Governor vs without, and I usually reject adoptions every turn until I at *least* get Smart/Skilled Bureaucrat or some combination of Understands Trade/Mining. So you're saying this boost could be 500% higher (to pay for himself) and that you can reliably farm the necessary traits up within a reasonably practical number of turns?

Depends on what you call a reasonable number of turns, but yes... A Governor with all three levels of the GoodFarmer trait plus the two ancillaries that add +1 and +2 farming (which, if you are a good faction, you get just by sitting around with level 2+ farms, evil factions are a bit more complicated for the +1 ancillary), that Governor gets +6 Farming Levels... that alone is worth 360/turn, leaving you only 140/turn down from breaking even. Every Governor should be 'farmed' to having the third level of the GoodTaxman trait, too, which adds +30% to Tax Collection. With those conditions, he only needs to be put in a settlement that gets 500/turn without him to raise its income to 1010/turn (not factoring the Piety income bonus). Most decent sized Large Towns and any City will be pulling in a lot more tax than that, and since that's a percentage bonus...

None of that considers various trade bonuses, other traits or ancillaries that add to tax income bonuses, mining bonuses (if applicable), or the Piety bonus (+1% total income per pip of Piety - last bonus calculated, so it includes all other bonuses in figuring what is 1%) or the effect of Law bonuses on reducing loss to Corruption.

Every Governor should be trained to level 3 GoodTaxman, level 3 GoodAdministrator, and at least level 2 GoodFarmer (because it's more efficient to spread GoodFarmer levels around multiple governors instead of pursuing level 3) + Level 3 Just (+3 Chivalry, + 3 Law). None of this is very hard and can all be fully trained up in ~40 turns - GoodAdministrator is what takes that long, the rest can all be trained in less than 20.

Finally, you should also have your Governors pursuing StrategyChivalry to get to +7 Chivalry for the Growth bonus.

EDIT in response to your edit: Orc factions have a harder time of, because they can't get a lot of the good revenue increasing traits, but they can get all the ones I've mentioned here. Rhun and Harad have it easier.

[zax]

READ THIS TOPIC and follow the instructions

[Incomitatus]

READ THIS TOPIC and follow the instructions

Unfortunately, some of the information in that guide is out-of-date for TATW 3.2.

My guide is up-to-date, although it is notable not very pithy. Actually, I think 'somewhat overwhelming, but very useful' is the consensus.

[k/t]

I almost always max out Brothels (which are 9000+ for the final tier). I think the payoff for this might be more than 100 turns, since it only gives 0.5% pop growth iirc.

You should take your prostitutes off birth control, then.

[brasswire]

I do similarly, but in a slightly different order. Market first (after any required culture buildings in conquered settlements, and first level Barracks to get free upkeep on some units) because I don't want to risk any of my governors getting the Bad Trader trait. Then Roads and Farms. Then everything else.

I never build Brothels unless I know that I will never, ever be putting a Governor in that settlement. Too much chance of getting bad traits and ruining his life. If I am in desperate need of a spy then I remove the Governor first, then build a Brothel, build a Spy, then immediately destroy the Brothel.

I always try to put a Governor in any settlement larger than a Town/Castle. Even if they didn't pay for themselves (they do) I would do it anyway for role-play reasons.

[Incomitatus]

You guys know you can build the brothel line in Elven settlements with governors and be fine, right? The Elves can't get most of the bad traits from them...

[gavincolee]

build a Spy, then immediately destroy the Brothel

[DrDragun]

Ya but max brothel is +0.5% pop growth right? "Buildings of leisure and entertainment" boost. I haven't completed reading Incomitatus's trigger post yet, but does walking Generals make brothels safe? And what really *are* the bad consequences of brothel traits? Enough to cancel out 0.5 pop growth?

EDIT: The guide is awesome by the way. I would say the only scary part is the beginning, since it begins with "changes from M2TW" it kind of assumes the reader has familiarity with the detailed mechanics of M2TW (which may seem reasonable from such an old game). However once one gets into the middle sections of the guide it is fully comprehensive.

[Incomitatus]

You don't need the max brothel. The third level gets you the boost of 0.5%. The fifth level gets +1.5%.

However, every level past the third gives increasing chances for very bad traits for governors. Walking the General does make them safe from the Brothel traits.

The bad Brothel traits are, by the way, very bad. Drink, Corrupt, Gambling, Girls, Arse, Perverted. You can avoid Corrupt and Perverted by not building anything bigger than the Tavern (although, there are other ways than Brothels+ to get Corrupt).

Basically, don't build Brothels in governed settlements, it will ruin the Governor. But it's unlikely you'll have enough Governors to go around, so you can build them in ungoverned settlements and get the Growth bonuses and put your Governors in other settlements to boost income and Growth there.

[Jean=A=Luc]

Maxing out pleasure is always a chief goal of mine.

[PapaRosario]

Maxing out pleasure is always a chief goal of mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTwyb-A1oak#t=00m15s

[Omnistar]

Well, usually I'll do: Mustering Hall (Barracks) > Farms > Roads > Cultural Buildings (Churches, etc.) > Ports (If any) > Mines > Other

I do it this way because, first of all, a basic defence is the key to your town happiness and economy. The happier the people in TATW, the more likely you are to achieve town growth. Farms are important because I "belly filled" people is a happy and healthy people. As such, you incease town growth automatically through farming, and will gain coin by more people paying taxes. Roads are important because people will soon be wanting to move into the town and will increase trade. Again, this will get you more coin over time. Cultural Buildings are imporant because they not only increase the general happiness of your people, but allow you to recruit better units based on the level of culture in that territory. Ports, well, they increase trade, food, and the amount of people of the land as Farms and Roads do. Therefore, Ports can be extremely important. Plus, those on sea move faster than those on land. General food for thought. Mines, well, they increase trade, and that gets you more coin. Other buildings (Brothels, Government Buildings, Archery Ranges, Stables, Artillary Ranges, Smithies, ect) will help you in further increasing your peoples happiness and giving you a more rounded option of troops. Though none of the Other buildings could be considered as necessisary to a town, they will be most needed if you plan on expanding your empire. The only thing you have to do is choose when the time is right to build such buildings to reinforce your frontier regions.