MINAS TIRITH CENTER PLAZA

[Nazaroth]

Hi all.I was wondering the center plaza in Minas Tirith shouldn't be in the top where the white tree is?For those that didn't understand i mean the square of flags you have to capture.Even the AI when you are on a siege moves up to the white tree instead to that narrow passage it is placed.Is this a bug or what? It has no sense to me why it isn't on the top.Is there any way i can fix this?

[mondpeiler]

I think, the first idea was to place the plaza on the top of MT. and this had been executed like this (that's why the AI places their troops on top and runns up to it sometimes).
but as they tested the map, they decided to move the plaza down to level 3 (or 4?!) of the wallrings.
why?
I don't really now, but it is maybe logical, that the way up to the top-level would need much time - and if time runs out, the AI may not have forced it's way up by then.
so that is probably the reason.

[FC Groningen]

It's because of the pathfinding issues the AI has. The more complex you make the settlement, the sooner the AI will get stuck or won't know what to d.

[Ngugi]

Unless the plaza is put there the settlement would be impossible to lose and almost impossible to capture, since all units trying to get up there would be dead exhaused before reaching it.
It would be unbalanced simply enough.

[Nazaroth]

First of all thank you for the replies.Now if the reason is that it would be too high for the AI to reach or path finding issues still it has no sense,because the AI either way moves to the white tree even if the flags are not there.Well ok not all of their troops but the majority.For example i was playing Isengard and went for an invasion to MT Sauron had called and attacked the city with 2 stacks of Mordor and Harad as allied force.The outcome was that both Mordor and Harad moved the majority of their troops to the top and i was fighting alone in the below level with Gondor.Anyway we can't have it all i guess i'll have to deal with it.

[Emperor of Hell]

I have this answer from King Kong personally and if the plaza would be on the top level the AI can never reach it.

[knicolas2]

`?? but why it can reach it when the flags are not on the top?

[Gallus]

I have this answer from King Kong personally and if the plaza would be on the top level the AI can never reach it.

Challenge accepted! I'm gonna test it right now.

As I expected, this is completely false. The AI managed to reach it in a few minutes.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Ngugi]

Because the road till that point is much more avilable (a.k.a not as many obsticles)?
It's not Skynet we're talking about here, the units get stuck in everything after all hehe. Vanilla M2 settlements have problems, here we're talking about a serpentine road with houses and blocks hindering the way and a single unit can end up on different levels at the same time.
And if the units would been forced to walk all the way up any logic player would just put all forces there. The time limit itself would win the game every time for you
Further I still claim that - and all the attacking units would be exhausted = rout very easy. AI would come up exhausted units one and one, AI would not be able to gather all it's units before a last united assult in such tearrain (partly because it can not get all up there to begin with and partly since - it's not Skynet, once again)

Com'on guys, you play the game, you know it's limitations, it can't be so hard to understand why the plaza on the top would be a bad idea?

[Swad]

In an earlier version of this mod when I attacked Amon Sul, I found that the town square was situated at the top of a very long and very steep path that goes all the way up an incredibly large pillar. Has this changed at all given your stance on the town square in Minas Tirith?

[Nazaroth]

I have started playing the 3.2 version very recently so i don't still know what goes with all custom cities.What made me post this about Minas Tirith was that at the beginning of the Gondor campaign i noticed that the flags were at the top during the entry video,so i thought it was a bag or something.The thing is that although the moderators changed the town square for the reasons mentioned in the above answers the AI behavior stayed the same and acts like the square is on the top which practically negates the reasons of this change.

[Incomitatus]

I have started playing the 3.2 version very recently so i don't still know what goes with all custom cities.What made me post this about Minas Tirith was that at the beginning of the Gondor campaign i noticed that the flags were at the top during the entry video,so i thought it was a bag or something.The thing is that although the moderators changed the town square for the reasons mentioned in the above answers the AI behavior stayed the same and acts like the square is on the top which practically negates the reasons of this change.

Good to know. I've never actually let them get past the gate, but now I have some idea what to expect if I ever have need to let them pass.

[Aldor]

In an earlier version of this mod when I attacked Amon Sul, I found that the town square was situated at the top of a very long and very steep path that goes all the way up an incredibly large pillar. Has this changed at all given your stance on the town square in Minas Tirith?

There is a large difference with Amon Sul.

It's has only one steep straight road up, but on the top there is a quite big battlefield. Not really optimal either, but an overwhelming force should be able to break through.

[Ngugi]

There is a large difference with Amon Sul.

It's has only one steep straight road up, but on the top there is a quite big battlefield. Not really optimal either, but an overwhelming force should be able to break through.

This

[Swad]

There is a large difference with Amon Sul.

It's has only one steep straight road up, but on the top there is a quite big battlefield. Not really optimal either, but an overwhelming force should be able to break through.

There is one similarity though, and that is the exhausted argument. When I assaulted Amon Sul and Minas Tirith, all of my troops were pretty much out of stamina when they got up to the town square.

As for the AI issue, I don't think it would be all that different than the road the AI has to walk in the Minas Morgul map. I don't think the AI is actually able to categorized things like "levels" in a city, so the path finding should be pretty straight forward as in the Minas Morgul case.

[k/t]

They shall not pass!

[Pyres Δt Varanasi]

They shall not pass!

This

[Laureasairon]

So I've asked this in the Q&A thread some months ago but still no answer, and I would really like to know it. Why is the city square in Minas Tirith on (i believe, not sure) 4th level and not on the 7th? Is it impossible to make or is it something else? Thanks!

[Emperor of Hell]

So you claim King Kong is wrong ?

He seemed pretty certain in his pm

However, as you pointed out, I can guarantie you that the attacking AI will never be able to capture MT.

It looks good on the pic but perhaps it depends on the amount of units or something. I once had 2 full stacks attacking me and their army was stuck on the 3d ring or something.

I will do some more testing myself

[Incomitatus]

They'd all be exhausted by the time they got to the top. Although, I don't really see the difference between the top and where the square is now for stamina issues. Exhausted is exhausted. I don't think there are greater penalties for being more exhausted.