Line Crossing Certificate - 1942

**~~removeduser_487563287433~~** · October 26, 2012, 06:20 AM

I moved into a new flat about a month ago and while I was unpacking my books a sheet of paper fell from the ones that I had inherited when my Grandmother died about two or three years ago.

This certifies that my Grandfather was "initiated into the ancient and mysterious rites and ceremonies" of the RMS Empress of Japan, 3rd August 1942. As I know my Grandfather was at the Second Battle of El Alamein a few months later, I presume this ship was taking him to Egypt from Britain by the long route around the Cape of Good Hope. As part of a ritual called a "line crossing ceremony", when fresh sailors crossed the equator for the first time, he received this, signed by "Neptune, God of the Seven Seas."

I am assuming that's the reason - a line crossing ceremony is the best explanation I've heard so far. I have no idea what "Neither Shaved Nor Dipped" means.

The RMS Empress of Japan was an ocean liner that formerly worked between Canada and the Far East, until it was taken into war service by the British Government and renamed as the RMS EMpress of Scotland. Presumably the new stationary had not arrived at this point, however.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Empress_of_Japan_(1930)

If anybody could give me any more information about the ship, ceremony or certificate, that'd be much appreciated, but primarily I just wanted to share this.

**Pielstick** · October 26, 2012, 06:47 AM

It's most definitely a line crossing certificate.

The ceremony varies from ship to ship but usually goes something like this:

Lord Neptune's court is convened with a member of the crew appropriately dressed as Neptune. There will also be Neptune's wife present (in reality an excuse for someone to dress up as a woman). All the ships company will be present. A list of names is read out of those who have not crossed the line. The "police", (also dressed as such), will go and arrest those who are on the list. It's considered a challenge to try and hide from the police. Once apprehended you will be taken before Neptune and have to ask permission to enter his Kingdom. To be granted permission you will have to go through a ritual humiliation in front of the ship's company which usually involves having your head shaven and being "dipped" (or more accurately thrown) into a large pool of some vile stinking concoction made up by the chief cook. You will also have to drink a similarly vile concoction that will leave you gagging. After this Neptune grants you permission to enter his Kingdom, you are presented with the certificate and have to carry it on future ships to prove you have completed the ceremony previously.

The ceremony is usually followed by a barbecue and piss-up.

The ceremony is quite tame now on a lot of ships thanks to the health and safety culture, but the worst excesses are usually reserved for members of the ship's company. I'd guess your grandfather was spared the shave and dip because he was a passenger.

**Pielstick** · October 26, 2012, 06:49 AM

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**~~removeduser_487563287433~~** · October 26, 2012, 11:31 AM

He was an officer, would that make a difference? Thanks, that's a huge insight.

**Pielstick** · October 26, 2012, 01:55 PM

Different ships run the ceremony in different ways. A cruise ship is going to be a lot more tame than a warship as you can imagine.

However, the ceremony is usually totally irrespective of rank. I'd say a one on a troop ship during WW2 would be pretty boisterous but again, if I had to guess I'd say your grandfather would have been spared the worst of it if he was a passenger and not part of the ship's crew.

There's a few videos on Youtube, this is the one that's most similar to the ceremony I did in 2004:

**Morbius Sire** · October 29, 2012, 08:40 AM

I am pretty much clueless in these matter

Does that always happen when the ship crosses an equator? At least for new seamen/sailors?

**Pielstick** · October 30, 2012, 01:33 PM

I'm sure it doesn't happen on every ship that crosses the equator, but I do know it's a very old and widely observed tradition - at least among Western seafarers.

A couple of others that spring to mind are "Channel Night" - which I think is a solely British tradition (although I'd guess other nations have an equivalent). This is the night before arriving back in the UK after a long voyage or deployment where an awful lot of alcohol is consumed - although this tradition is slowly being wiped out by modern anti alcohol regulations and policies.

On New Year's Eve the oldest member of the ship's company rings the ship's bell just before midnight and the youngest member of the ship's company rings it just after midnight.

When I was down in the Falklands when we passed over the wreck (and war grave) of one of the RN warships the officer of the watch made a cup of tea and poured it over the side for the lads who are still down there.

As well as the traditions and customs that are observed, there's also the entirely new vocabulary that goes with working at sea. Sometimes it's like a totally different language!

**|Sith|Galvanized Iron** · October 31, 2012, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ferrets54

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

It means your grandfather was a leading occultist and freemasoner unfortunately

**~~removeduser_487563287433~~** · October 31, 2012, 06:57 PM

Good. I admire his moxy.

**s.rwitt** · November 05, 2012, 08:51 AM

If anybody could give me any more information about the ship, ceremony or certificate, that'd be much appreciated, but primarily I just wanted to share this.

Pielstick already covered what I was going to post about the ceremony. Mind you, I've never seen one and only heard of it from American Marines who have been on a ship that crossed the equator. From what I understand "King Neptune" is the fattest, nastiest sailor on the ship and in some cases you have to like eat a cherry out of his belly button or something. Then they make you crawl through a bunch of nastiness etc. etc. and then everyone gets drunk. Surprisingly (for the Marine Corps), there is little to no getting beaten by your friends in this ceremony. As a frame of reference, the guys who have talked about this had their experiences within the last ten years or so.

**I WUB PUGS** · November 08, 2012, 04:34 PM

It is commonly referred to as "Shellback Initiation". My father became one when he was in the Navy in the '70s.

He still has big certificate in a frame that looks a lot like the one on the right:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-cr...eremony#Honors

My greatuncle got a certificate for crossing the International Date Line when he went to Korea. Oddly enough my father didn't get one for crossing the date line even though he did like 10 times.

**~~removeduser_487563287433~~** · November 09, 2012, 03:25 AM

Again, thanks for all the insight.

**Diglytron** · November 09, 2012, 03:56 AM

Wow this is an very cool story! Thanks for sharing Sir Ferrets

**Diocle** · November 28, 2012, 08:34 AM

Empress of Japan

armed merchant cruiser (hired), 5,940grt, 1891(b), 8-4.7in, 16kts. Returned to civilian service 10/15

Feb 1915-Jun 1915, Aug 1915-Nov 1915, China

I found the 'Empress of Japan' on this wonderful site: http://www.naval-history.net/Oxon01-ShipList.htm

NAVAL-HISTORY.NET 1998-2012

Also my dad was an Officer in the Navy in those years, but he was on the opposite side, in fact he served as Lieutenant in the Regia Marina Italiana, so I felt as a personal duty helping you to find informations about the ship of your grandfather.

Hope the information and the site will be helpful.

**~~removeduser_487563287433~~** · November 29, 2012, 12:37 AM

Wrong one.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_E...of_Japan_(1930)

**Diocle** · November 29, 2012, 06:32 AM

Yeah, I thought your grand dad was too old!

Now the correct Empress and a new link

(Take a look because it's a really nice site!

) But Beware Ferret, Winston ordered in 1942 that the ship had to be renamed Empress of Scotland.
Anyway here the link to the wonderful site: CRUISING THE PAST

This is only an extract from the main article and some nice images:

Cruise Ship History:

SS EMPRESS OF JAPAN

Canadian Pacific Steamship – 1930s – 10 Days from Vancouver to Japan

"In 1930 the Canadian Pacific’s trans-pacific service reached its zenith with the introduction of the magnificent S/S Empress of Japan. She was a very handsome ship and had magnificent interiors that now are associated with the Empress liners of Canadian Pacific. This mighty ship was delivered to Canadian Pacific in Liverpool and sailed on her maiden voyage from Liverpool to Quebec on the 14th July 1930. From Quebec she sailed to Southampton.

On the 12th July 1930 she sailed from Southampton bound for Hong Kong via the Suez Canal to begin her trans pacific services. On the 7th August 1930 she set off on her first trans-pacific crossing from Hong Kong to Vancouver via Yokohama and Honolulu. Some of the notable guests on board included HM The King of Siam. During her maiden trans-pacific voyage, she set a new speed record for the route from Yokohama to Vancouver.

Over the next nine years the Empress of Japan made 58 round trips from Vancouver to Yokohama and Shanghai (via Honolulu) during which time the American and Japanese competition could never match her speed. During this heyday she was the undisputed champion of the trans-pacific service. She was the flagship of the trans-pacific service, like the famous RMS Empress of Britain was for their transatlantic service. Sadly this came to an end when the Second World War started in September 1939. At the time the Empress of Japan was in Shanghai. Due to suspicions about Japanese intentions Canadian Pacific ordered her to sail straight back to Victoria in British Colombia via Honolulu. There like many other ocean liners she was converted for use as a troopship during the Second World War and gave sterling service. In October 1942 after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, Winston Churchill (the British Prime Minister) personally ordered that the Empress of Japan should be renamed as Empress of Scotland. She carried this name for the rest of her Canadian Pacific career. After the war she was transferred to the Atlantic service from Liverpool, replacing the Empress of Britain, which had been lost. Following the delivery of the post-war Empresses, she was sold to Hamburg Atlantic Line in 1957."

This is The Empress after she was sold and became the Hanseatic

SS Hanseatic (former Empress of Japan)
After substantial rebuilding into the more modern looking two-funneled liner Hanseatic, services began between Cuxhaven, Havre, Southampton and New York in July 1958. The Hanseatic was badly damaged by fire in New York on 7th September 1966. She was towed to Hamburg, but considered unsuitable for repair and scrapped."

You grandfather traveling was convenient and comfortable!!!!

******

Sadly my dad , in those years, served on the less confortable Destroyer 'Carabiniere'

:

**~~removeduser_487563287433~~** · November 30, 2012, 12:55 AM

Maybe slightly more comfortable than the western desert, though.

**Diocle** · November 30, 2012, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ferrets54

Maybe slightly more comfortable than the western desert, though.

It depends.......but I don't want to occupy with family's sad stories this thread.....

Anyway, the RMS QoJ Now has been found, it was a fantastic ship, even if I don't understand why Churchill changed its name in Queen of Scotland, and reading the text I don't know if this change really happened, because the text states that the ship was still the Queen of Japan when it was sold to the Germans.....

Last note: Also in the Italian Navy there was the cerimony you described, but less.....complex!
I think it was something like an old international tradition, but about this aspect I don't know anything in detail.
My dad and his dad and the dad of his dad were in the navy, and he told me his dad and him had had some cerimony for the occasion, but he never detailed the rite, so when I read this thread I've been very interested because I knew the story but I did not knew the details.
In the first Italian Navy after the Unification (1860), the passages of the Cape was inserted in the official notes of the single Officers, and was officialy considered a sign of good naval experience, but we must take into account that in those time the ships were sailing vessels.