Santa Claus/Easter Bunny/other children "celebrations", good or bad?

[Biggieboy]

Just wondering something when I was talking about Sinterklaas (saint nicholas, something similar to santa claus here in Europe). Is it okay to tell children such fairy tales? I'm not saying it's either right or wrong, just curious about your opinions on this. Is it okay to make children believe such things? Can it be harmful in any way, or the contrary beneficial? Let me know what you think.

[Enzo]

It helps to prime their imagination ready to accept the eternal truths of God when they're old enough. Or at any rate it's all harmless fun for em.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

It helps to prime their imagination ready to accept the eternal truths of God when they're old enough. Or at any rate it's all harmless fun for em.

This is such a wonderful post that I must wonder whther you're actually religious. I mean, really?

[removeduser_4536284751384]

It softens them up for the adult version, God.

[Matthias]

You are essentially lying to children. Is it alright to lie to children? Harmless? I don't think so.

And yes, it is comparable to the whole religion thing, as it is essentially the same.

People remember what it was like to become an agnostic/atheist about Santa Claus. It's not a nice feeling to be told something is wonderfully true, to be manipulated as a child, just to have it ripped away when reality hits.

[truth1337]

Just wondering something when I was talking about Sinterklaas (saint nicholas, something similar to santa claus here in Europe). Is it okay to tell children such fairy tales? I'm not saying it's either right or wrong, just curious about your opinions on this. Is it okay to make children believe such things? Can it be harmful in any way, or the contrary beneficial? Let me know what you think.

Do you by this intend to say fairy tales in general are bad? Fairy tales teach them to think out of the box and in terms of abstract, theoretical scenarios. At least when we talk e.g. Brother Grimm tales and similar - these all present abstract, theoretical scenarios about moral dilemmas or threats that the child has great advantage from becoming aware of and vigilant towards at an early age way before he has to experience them himself, and learn the hard way.

As for Santa and other tales which have no moral teaching value, I'm not sure why this would be so bad. If we look at fundamentalist Satanic Kabbalah Marxists, their obsession with what they perceive to be "rational" or "truth", is so big that they isolate them from any sort of idea that doesn't work with the world view they have been fed. Their "critical theory" is only applied to opposing views, but often with one-liner "arguments" and more desire to (attempt to) humiliate the other opinion than to answer scientifically why it would be wrong, and they never use it to question their own fundamentalist dogma to be able to change opinion, until they get to a state of hateful loneliness of heart and desperately seek a way out of the satanic darkness, and often find either the teachings of Christ, or love, or anything more meaningful than their previous psychopathic desire to obsessively stick to one "truth" which they never question.

In that sense, what can the story of Santa do? It can help children think outside the box while they're still small, but then, when they realize Santa was a lie, they learn something very important - vigilance and being critical to all whom they trust, even their own parents, whom they instinctively would think would never lie to them. With this, they're well-armed for a life in a world with deceitful media. That child will realize, that "taxes pay your social security" was a lie, and realize "usury fraud scam by privately owned national banks controlled by Rothschilds, Warburgs, Rockefellers etc pay the social security but cause massive debt as the government must pay back worthless paper money printed by the Fed, which is why your taxes are so high".

In that sense, overall, telling your children Santa exists while they're young, only to have them later discover it was a lie, can only be a good thing.

[Biggieboy]

Truth1337, I wasn't implying anything, I'm just curious what other people think of this. Thanks for your serious thought-out reply

[Valden]

I don't think children knowing fairy tales does them any harm; find me some adults who still believe in the tooth fairy! Working out your own worldview is apart of growing up, just as realising what is true or not is. I think fairy tales bring happiness and excitement to children, while they may not be empirically true, the values and images they conjure certainly feed the soul.

[chriscase]

Christmas, Easter, etc are all cultural events, with associated stories, rituals, etc. As such, it's dubious to expect kids to be unaffected by them.

Such customs need no elaboration by parents one way or the other. If we want our children to think for themselves we do what we generally ought to do: we don't talk about it or we only talk in vague terms so as to encourage children to make up their own minds. They're probably going to anyway, but the less interference from us the better.

What many younger folks who have not raised kids seem to misunderstand is that little kids don't understand literal reality the same way adults do. My four year old literally does not understand that the Barbie in her mind is distinct from - and fundamentally different from - Barbie sitting on her dresser. For me to tell her Santa does not exist as a fact is the same to her as my telling her Santa does not exist in her mind. At best she will respond to me by saying she knows Santa exists because she has seen him, and at worst I will damage her faith in her own perceptions. And since she simply will not understand the point I am making anyway, it'll all be for naught.

Of course, if someone else tries to exert direct influence on my children, that's another matter entirely. No one talks magic to my kids without my permission, and no one gets permission.

[Biggieboy]

I think I agree with you Valden, me believing in Sinterklaas didn't do me any harm, although I did wonder how he got through the chimney; not because of the chimney, but because it ended in a stove, where a child wouldn't even fit, let alone an adult. And there's certainly a difference between things like Santa Claus and fairy tales (like Hansel and Gretel etc.); the latter isn't real, but it can teach some morals and values, so I surely value that.

[Himster]

Fairy tales contain within them important life lessons, colourful characters, the language of the entire genre is specifically tailored to help them learn how to read, the illustrations and art idioms will influence the child's interpretation of the visual world for years to come, they give a time structure where certain aspects of life are concentrated upon at certain times of year.
And quite importantly, they instrumental in teaching children the difference between fantasy and reality.

[The Despondent Mind]

Fairy tales are very good for children , but sometimes the whole Santa Claus thing can a dumb them up a bit .

[DimeBagHo]

The question of whether fairy tales serve a religious educational purpose is on topic, but the questions of whether god exists, or whether any religion is true are off topic. There are other threads for those issues.

[Biggieboy]

I wasn't even arguing that fairy tales serve a religious educational purpose. I was just wondering if people consider such traditions as good or bad; is lying about the existence of the easter bunny or santa claus harmful, or is it good in some way? I've even tried to make it clear to keep God out of this topic.

Anyways, I don't feel I've been harmed in any way by being told such things exist; whether I believed them or not (I may have believed in Sinterklaas when I was young), I found the experience quite exciting: going to sleep, wondering what presents I got, or where to look for the hidden eggs. It was all good fun. I didn't feel like it was part of a religious brainwashing of any kind; Belgium has been secular at least since I was young (although Belgium was strongly religious in the past); religion is considered more personal here rather than a state affair. And the Easter Bunny may be linked with christian beliefs, but I didn't interpret it that way; it was just a fun pastime once a year. This still leaves the question where the line is between fantasy, and lying or unfounded claims.

[Enzo]

And the Easter Bunny may be linked with christian beliefs.

No it isn't. It's was originally pagan goddess called Ester who could turn herself into a hare, she seems to have hung around.

I didn't feel like it was part of a religious brainwashing of any kind.

I like how you're getting your point across while not actually making the point as the topic of the thread so it can't be countered. Very clever.

[Arbitrary Crusader]

I think it fine.

Make their life a bit more enjoyable.

"WHOA DAD YOU"RE TELLING A MAN FLY THRU THE SKIES WITH DEERS TO DELIVER PRESENT OF WHAT EVER I WANT?!"

"Totally son."

Although, I assume, as did I, the realization will come in to them, that he doesn't exist.

Hell, I don't feel bad that my parent told me, Santa exist when I was kid.

I enjoy it at that time. And I hope my future children will feel the same feeling as did I

[Humble Warrior]

Celebrations are traditions that are often important for our identity and culture. They should not be dismissed.

However, being English and seeing English people starting to celebrate Halloween confuses me. What does halloween represent? it`s not an English custom as far as I know and seems to only celebrate scaring eachother and mutilation than anything even remotely meaningful.

Perhaps Halloween represents meaningless foreign foolishness.

[Himster]

Celebrations are traditions that are often important for our identity and culture. They should not be dismissed.

However, being English and seeing English people starting to celebrate Halloween confuses me. What does halloween represent? it`s not an English custom as far as I know and seems to only celebrate scaring eachother and mutilation than anything even remotely meaningful.

Perhaps Halloween represents meaningless foreign foolishness.

Tell that to Shakespeare.
The roots of Halloween are ultimately celtic: leaving food out on the last day before winter for dead relatives and local spirits to ensure a peaceful winter was quite common. Eventually cheeky children began dressing as the deceased and local spirits in order to get the free food, until recently there was a tradition of the destitute begging for alms at Halloween as commented by Shakespeare, also a hollowed Turnip is the traditional Halloween lantern of the British Isles, the pumpkin is a foreign replacement. The games played on Halloween such as bobbing for apples are known to have been practiced by druids as means of divination.
Halloween has been celebrated in England in some form or other since well before the birth of Christ. The catholic attempt to integrate Halloween with the catholic calender was by placing all saints day on the first of November, Protestants attempt to throw a myriad of new-fangled names at what they consider a pagan festival.

It's not a meaningless holiday at all.

[Humble Warrior]

Funny, how it didn`t seem to exist when I was a kid. I`ll get back to you after I`ve done some research on the subject.

[Biggieboy]

Funny, how it didn`t seem to exist when I was a kid. I`ll get back to you after I`ve done some research on the subject.

It basically has pagan roots in Samhain ( Here ), and has been highly commercialised, like most holidays.