Difference between Sylvan Elves and High Elves?

[Dragonchampion]

Hello, I've been examining the different races, and I normally play dwarves, but I'm lookign to broaden my horizons. I noticed that both elves are similar, but Sylvans have "Excellent archers" and High Elves have "Good Archers". What's the difference between the two races?

[FC Groningen]

Well, out of the two factions, the Silvan Elves are considered to have the best archers, but a less balanced unit roster. For example, the Silvan Elves can only field horse archers where the High Elves can field light cavalry and heavy cavalry (including the bodyguards). The Silvans really rely on archers mostly to get their kills while the High Elves could rely on all sorts of units.

[ppetrus]

Nothing to add. Maybe only that at this moment it is High Elves that are recommended to play with as Silvan Elves might have their units redeveloped by 3.3 or 4.0 so it might be worth to wait.

[TheDarkOne1994]

The major difference between the two Elven factions is units. The Silvans have better archers and a wider selection of infantry units while the High Elves have excellent heavy calvary. Both Factions are good to play as I would say the Silvans would be easier to win as just because youre closer to Mordor and can confront them before they become a late game powerhouse.

[FC Groningen]

I'd say the opposite. Once you get your economy going (move your capital to Mithlond on turn 1!), it's quite easy to secure all your borders, except for Imladris'. From there, you can expand where ever you want with a balanced roster and basically superior units all the time. The lack of heavy cavalry for the Silvans made my campaign quite harder and it's possible to be attacked from all sides there. Orcs of the Misty Mountains from the west and north, Mordor from the south and eventually Rhun from the east.

[eugenioso]

first of all, theyre both elven factions. it may sound obvious, but that in itself is a description of their units: powerful, with loads of defense skill and the best ranged units in the game, but few in number. the key difference is how both sides approach to fighting: while the silvans lean more towards the ranged part of warfare, the high elves lean towards a mix of melee and ranged. this means that the high elves cant field an archer focused army like the silvans efficiently, while the silvans cant focus heavily on melee and have to rely on their archers more than the high elves.

neither one is stronger than the other: while the HE use range as support for their melee, the silvans use their melee to support their range. if they were to fight each other (something i avoid in my long campaigns as im too fond of the lore theme to pit elf against elf) it would come down to proper usage of units.

[DrDragun]

Silvan Generals are archers. High Elf Generals are cavalry. Silvans have no real cavalry. Silvans have better late-game economy usually due to a more central territory and being able to rapidly conquer OotMM.

[Elven Warrior]

the difference between the two is that the high elves have a very balanced to my mind army. while the silvans focus more on archers. the silvanns have mediocore cav while the high elves have very good cav units.

[Vifarc]

the silvanns have mediocore cav

? Their horse archers are excellent! High elves horse archers do are mediocre

[Elven Warrior]

? Their horse archers are excellent! High elves horse archers do are mediocre

i meant there cav in general. the silvan elves only have one specialized unit of cav. while the high elves have a very diverse cav selection. and head to head i would think the high elves cav would come out victorious.

[k/t]

The good thing about RR/RC is that it made a bigger distinction between factions. Also, TATW hasn't gone in a good direction, as now every faction has a unit to fill every role.

In my 1.4.1 install, the High Elves have smaller archer units and bigger melee units than the Silvan Elves. Apart from that, they're pretty evenly matched. The High Elves have the best melee cavalry unit in the game, while the Silvan Elves have the best horse archer unit in the game (and that's the only cavalry the Elves have, apart from HE generals). They play similarly, since they are both Elves, but slightly differently, since they are different factions.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Doesn't actually the High Elves "Eldar Archers" (maybe it's their name in the other LOTR-mod, the heavy ones in yellow armor) match anything the Silvans can field in the way of archery? So High Elves are clearly superior.

[DrDragun]

Doesn't actually the High Elves "Eldar Archers" (maybe it's their name in the other LOTR-mod, the heavy ones in yellow armor) match anything the Silvans can field in the way of archery? So High Elves are clearly superior.

If most armies include 1-2 Generals, then the Silvans armies will feel and play very different because their generals are archers where the HE are cavalry. The SE Sindar Archers (general's bodyguard) are the best individual archer troops in the game (I believe they are 1 damage over Eldar, and as a general's unit they self-retrain, although they have a substantially lower full count). It can make a big difference to use generals as your front line of archers in an archer vs archer battle (vs Harad or Rhun), then have them self-replenish after the fight.

I do think that HE have the best overall unit roster though between the two. But they play quite differently because of the generals.

[ppetrus]

There is supposed to be some hidden factor which makes Sindar archers more effective than Eldar. It is accuracy, I believe, but not sure.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

But doesn't the High Elf archers also have more armor? Armor is really important in archer duels.

[DrDragun]

Silvans definitely have the best overall archer roster, no question. If you count Generals, they have the single most elite units in the game. If you don't count Generals, they have both the #2 and #4 best archers in the game. Sentinels of the Woodland Realm are amazing for their availability level and cost.

Best to Worst

1-Sindar Archers (Silvans)
Train: N/A
Upkeep: 250
Units: 30, self-retraining
13 Attack (210 range)
15 Defense (8a + 7d + 0sh)
12 Melee
19 Melee Charge

2-Eldarinwe Archers (High Elves)
Train: 840
Upkeep: 330
Units: 48
12 Attack (210 range)
15 Defense (9a + 6d + 0sh)
12 Melee
16 Melee Charge

3-Silvan Heavy Archers (Silvans)
Train: 780
Upkeep: 300
Units: 48
12 Attack (210 range)
13 Defense (8a + 5d + 0sh)
12 Melee
19 Melee Charge

4-Bardian Marksman (Dale) - 10attack, 190range, 11defense(7+3+1), 60men - Higher than normal unit size
5-Sentinels of the Woodland Realm (Silvans) - 11attack, 200range, 9defense(3+6+), 48men - They can outperform Bardian Marksmen vs high armor infantry
6-Noretirno Warrior (High Elves) - 10attack, 190range, 11defense(7+3+1), 48men
7-Dundain Ranger (Arnor) - 10attack, 190range, 8defense(3+5+1), 48men
8-Ithilien Ranger (Gondor) - 9attack, 190range, 6defense(2+4+1), 60men - Higher than normal unit size
9-Athala Ranger (Dale) - 9attack, 190range, 8defense(5+3+0), 48men

[ppetrus]

As I have mentioned, Silvan archers probably have some hidden accuracy bonuses. Not sure if all of them or only Sindar and Heavies. Thus, they are more lethal than Eldars and Eldars are only more armoured. And what counts more in archers: armour or damage inflicted?

[Incomitatus]

As I have mentioned, Silvan archers probably have some hidden accuracy bonuses. Not sure if all of them or only Sindar and Heavies. Thus, they are more lethal than Eldars and Eldars are only more armoured. And what counts more in archers: armour or damage inflicted?

Silvan archers use the elf_arrow projectile attribute. So do the High Elven archers and the Dunedain Rangers, Bardian Marksmen, Athala Rangers, and Dale's Bodyguards.

So no, no 'hidden' accuracy bonus, though they are more accurate than 'normal' archers.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Well the Eldars also got higher number so they get to fire more arrows. Well armor counts for a lot in an archer vs archer battle, but if they are just going to "gun" down advancing infantry then armor is not as useful. I do however think we can safely say that the extra charge bonus for Silvan Archers is pretty much a non-factor.

[Eönwë]

Are we talking about the projectile folder?
Aren't the Sindar ones elite_elven_arrow? With higher accurary? And Dunadain rangers use ranger_arrows or elite_ranger_arrows?