Western/Tsarist Split?

[Turtler]

Anyway, first time poster longtime player. I absolutely love the mod so far, and I've probably played it for longer than the vanilla Napoleon! (Even if I do occasionally mourn for the Spanish war... does anybody know if there's a way to put it back in for the Brits without having to uninstall the patch?)

That said, looking through the 4.8 Freelance start patch, a small thought came to my mind. Since my BEF/French/Belgians/Italians/Greeks/DanesSwedesNorweigiansWhatevers tend to crush the Central Powers in a couple of years and given the history involved, one thing that came to mind was a potential "Early Cold War."

Granted, the Russians and the French were the very first Entente members and so the history of that alliance was a lot stronger than that with the Soviet Union in the sequel, but over the course of WWI it certainly shifted so that the alliances with the British (in particular), Italians, Belgians, Greeks, and Americans were far more pressing (what with the horrible meatgrinder of the Western Fronts being what it was) and the values between them were probably considerably less far removed than those between the Western powers and the Tsarists on the other hand.

So, if WWI resulted in a far more complete victory than historical, and resulted in places where the Western Allies and a surviving Tsarist Russia had a chance to meet (say, at the Elbe if we're going for fullbown stereotypical), isn't it not exactly the most unlikely that it would take a few months or so before both sides realized they had a lot to hate about each other? If nothing else, I imagine that a surviving Romanov Dynasty would've led to the Serbian-led newly minted Yugoslavia having the opportunity to strengthen the traditional ties, one that they might well have taken. A "Damned Stupid Thing in the Balkans: Electric Boogaloo (TM)" doesn't seem that improbable given how porous things were with the Greeks and the rest.

That said, as things stand such an event is pretty much impossible given how the alliances are handled. So, what does everyone else think? Potential for further tensions?

[LotsofxXandzZ]

Anyway, first time poster longtime player. I absolutely love the mod so far, and I've probably played it for longer than the vanilla Napoleon! (Even if I do occasionally mourn for the Spanish war... does anybody know if there's a way to put it back in for the Brits without having to uninstall the patch?)

That said, looking through the 4.8 Freelance start patch, a small thought came to my mind. Since my BEF/French/Belgians/Italians/Greeks/DanesSwedesNorweigiansWhatevers tend to crush the Central Powers in a couple of years and given the history involved, one thing that came to mind was a potential "Early Cold War."

Granted, the Russians and the French were the very first Entente members and so the history of that alliance was a lot stronger than that with the Soviet Union in the sequel, but over the course of WWI it certainly shifted so that the alliances with the British (in particular), Italians, Belgians, Greeks, and Americans were far more pressing (what with the horrible meatgrinder of the Western Fronts being what it was) and the values between them were probably considerably less far removed than those between the Western powers and the Tsarists on the other hand.

So, if WWI resulted in a far more complete victory than historical, and resulted in places where the Western Allies and a surviving Tsarist Russia had a chance to meet (say, at the Elbe if we're going for fullbown stereotypical), isn't it not exactly the most unlikely that it would take a few months or so before both sides realized they had a lot to hate about each other? If nothing else, I imagine that a surviving Romanov Dynasty would've led to the Serbian-led newly minted Yugoslavia having the opportunity to strengthen the traditional ties, one that they might well have taken. A "Damned Stupid Thing in the Balkans: Electric Boogaloo (TM)" doesn't seem that improbable given how porous things were with the Greeks and the rest.

That said, as things stand such an event is pretty much impossible given how the alliances are handled. So, what does everyone else think? Potential for further tensions?

tbh this is just really to much, it's a cool idea and all but it is just way to much. In my opinion it isn't too interesting either.

[Turtler]

tbh this is just really to much, it's a cool idea and all but it is just way to much. In my opinion it isn't too interesting either.

Heh. I can understand indeed, particularly since there would be no driving force to finish off-say- Bolshevik Russia if things go more historically.

But what I was basically pondering is this: does anyone know if we could work alliances to make possible schisms and other problems (like-say- the Provisional Republic of Russia or the Monarchy quitting while it's ahead before the Bolsheviks, or Britain or Italy dropping out of the war)? That was just the most prominent idea that stuck me.

That, and if the game drags on longer than the usual or the player wants to continue, I figure it might give we "unstable" individuals something interesting to do if we chose to accept it.

[LotsofxXandzZ]

But what I was basically pondering is this: does anyone know if we could work alliances to make possible schisms and other problems.

I think it might be possible to script it, but there would have to be some trigger that when Imperial Russia goes to the Russian SFSR that at the same time some region becomes the Russian provisional government, and something tells me that doing that could be quite difficult.

[Turtler]

I think it might be possible to script it, but there would have to be some trigger that when Imperial Russia goes to the Russian SFSR that at the same time some region becomes the Russian provisional government, and something tells me that doing that could be quite difficult.

I can imagine. Sounds like something for a late, post-final patch or a user-made addon to get that scenario exactly.

More generally, any ideas on how permeable the alliances are (and whether there's room for breaking up or decaying given how tense some of them could be with morale decay and the like)?

[IrishHitman]

Sounds like the Central Powers need a buff.

[Aanker]

If you feel like creating an early-scenario Cold War, you have the tools to do so: revolt, emerge as the Soviet Union, destroy Germany, and then bring Communism in all its glory to the countries in the west.

[Turtler]

If you feel like creating an early-scenario Cold War, you have the tools to do so: revolt, emerge as the Soviet Union, destroy Germany, and then bring Communism in all its glory to the countries in the west.

Sorry, not remotely interested in that.

For one? It's not even the right campaign for me. I usually play as Britain, or when I feel masochistic France/Belgium/Greece/Italy/*Denmark*/the Netherlands. I'm not remotely interested in running a Russian campaign until I'm finished with those, and even then I probably won't be overly interested. Call me a chauvinist, but those are just how I lean. I'm interested in shooting the Soviets, not becoming them (always have and always will be).

Secondly, I'm sorry if you didn't mean it like this, but the post comes across as unduly dismissive and flippant. Automatically assuming that I'm only interested in an "early-scenario Cold War" seems rather unduly dismissive. Don't get me wrong, but that strikes at least myself as offensive.. If I wanted a cliched Cold War scenario I'd open up the mods and try to make one myself (or more likely propose to others about it).

What I'm interested is possible evolutions from the main mod campaign to *potential* conflicts like that. For instance, what might or might not happen if the West and the Russian-led bloc break, or the Habsburgs and Germans fall out, or other alliance splits that could be possible. Which is why I raise the question of how alliances work, and how a potential split out work.

Beyond anything specific, I'd appreciate being educated on the mechanics behind that.