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  1. #1
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    Default Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    Remember that story back in 09 about the Italians prosecuting those Italian scientists for being 'falsely reassuring' regarding an earthquake?
    Well they got sentenced today:
    L'AQUILA, ITALY—Seven experts tasked with giving advice ahead of the deadly earthquake that struck here in 2009 have been found guilty of manslaughter by a judge in the central Italian town this evening. The four scientists, two engineers, and a government official were accused of having carried out a superficial analysis of seismic risk and of having provided false reassurances to the public ahead of the quake, which killed 309 people. The prosecution had requested prison terms of 4 years for the accused, but Judge Marco Billi has handed each a sentence of 6 years imprisonment. The lawyers of the convicted say they will appeal the verdict.

    Alfredo Biondi, the defense lawyer for one of the seven, Claudio Eva, a seismologist at the University of Genova, says the verdict was "extremely mistaken" and that he was "sorry" because he had "great faith in the law and those who apply it." He added: "When someone says how things are, they shouldn't end up in jail for 6 years."

    "I think it is truth and justice," says Vincenzo Vittorini, who lost his wife and daughter in the quake. "It wasn't a trial against science; it was a trial against those who didn't know how to evaluate the risk, who didn't know to mitigate the risk. What we have been trying to say for 3 years has been affirmed today in an important way."

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    "It's incredible that scientists trying to do their job under the direction of a government agency have been convicted for criminal manslaughter," says earth scientist Thomas Jordan of the University of Southern California in Los Angeles. "We know that the system for communicating risk before the L'Aquila earthquake was flawed, but this verdict will cast a pall over any attempt to improve it. I'm afraid that many scientists are learning to keep their mouths shut. This won't help those of us who are trying to improve risk communication between scientists and the public."

    All seven convicted took part in a meeting of Italy's National Commission for the Forecast and Prevention of Major Risks that was held in L'Aquila on 31 March 2009, 6 days before the quake struck. They are: the commission's then-vice-president Franco Barberi, a volcanologist at the University of Rome (Roma Tre); Enzo Boschi, a geophysicist at the University of Bologna and at the time of the earthquake president of Italy's National Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology (INGV); Gian Michele Calvi, a seismic engineer at the University of Pavia; Eva; Mauro Dolce, a seismic engineer and director of seismic risk at Italy's Civil Protection Department (DPC); Giulio Selvaggi, a seismologist at INGV; and Bernardo De Bernardinis, a hydraulic engineer who in 2009 was deputy head of DPC.

    The meeting was convened on 30 March 2009 by then-head of the DPC Guido Bertolaso with the stated aim of providing authoritative information on a seismic "swarm" of small- and medium-sized tremors that had shaken the town over the previous 3 months. The prosecution alleged that the information provided by the experts led to many people staying indoors on the night of 5 to 6 April 2009, rather than seeking safety outside as they had done following earlier tremors, having been trained to do so from a young age. It was that change in behavior, charged the prosecution, which caused the deaths of 30 of the victims.

    In his closing arguments on 24 September, public prosecutor Fabio Picuti underlined that the men were not being charged with having failed to predict the exact time, place, and magnitude of the deadly quake, information that he said modern science was not able to provide. Instead, he told the court, the defendants made a series of "banal and self-contradictory" statements during their 2009 meeting, many of which were "at best scientifically useless" or, worse, "misleading."

    Among the most controversial statements highlighted by the prosecution were those made by De Bernardinis in a television interview ahead of the meeting. The DPC deputy head said that the ongoing tremors posed "no danger" and that the "the scientific community continues to confirm to me that in fact it is a favorable situation." In fact, he said, the ongoing tremors helped discharge energy. This statement was particularly reassuring, according to a number of court testimonies by friends and relatives of the victims, because it suggested the danger decreased with each tremor.

    In responding to the prosecution's charges, Boschi's lawyer Marcello Melandri was keen to distance the statements of De Bernardinis from those of the rest of the commission, telling the court that, according to Picuti's reasoning, "De Bernardinis suddenly becomes a prophet" insofar as he made his comments before and not after the meeting. Francesco Petrelli, meanwhile, said it was "impossible" to regard as reassuring comments on the unpredictability of earthquakes made by his client, then-commission vice-president Barberi, in a press interview after the meeting. De Bernardinis's advocate, Filippo Dinacci, also emphasized the impossibility of predicting earthquakes. "We are asking the conviction of seven Christians just because an event happened," he told the court.

    Responding to this point this morning, Picuti argued that the defense failed to distinguish between a natural disaster and the risk of such a disaster. While an earthquake is impossible to predict, he said, its risk can be predicted. That logic, he maintained, is born out in the very name of the commission.

    The trial has already run for more than a year, but it may be a while still before the end of the legal process. Now that the judge has announced the verdict, he has up to 90 days to deposit a document explaining his reasoning, and the defense will then have 45 days to lodge an appeal. But with two or even three stages, says civil party lawyer Fabio Alessandroni, the appeals process could last up to 6 years.
    Source: http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencein...f-.html?ref=hp

  2. #2

    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    As I understand it, they were paid consultants. Though I always got the impression it was really a case of finding some scapegoats.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    As I understand it, they were paid consultants. Though I always got the impression it was really a case of finding some scapegoats.
    It's clearly about finding a scapegoat. L'Aquila is in a extreme high risk zone. Everyone knew that. The scientists said that the small tremors would not indicate an even more elevated risk. I wonder what the reactions would have been if they had warned of an impending earthquake, and then none would have happened...

    This is all an attempt to satisfy the population's wish for a scapegoat, and divert from the real problem:

    That most of the buildings who collapsed did not meet the requirements for building in a high risk zone like L'Aquila...
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    Sending this guys to prision is pretty dumb, at most they should have been fired. How exactly are they responsible for what happened?

    Blame the earthquake for the deaths, not the scientists. Their responsibility was to inform the population of the dangers, and they did, it just wasn't accurate.
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    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    Technocrats beware.
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    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    "We don't think there will be a major earthquake."

    *Major Earthquake*

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    Haha, few more prisoners to increase the Italian tax payers' burden.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    It happened on a planet in a galaxy many trillion light years away, once upon a time:

    Scientist (18th century): The Earth is spherical.
    Judge (21th century): Wrong answer! The Earth is eggshaped. 20 years. Next!
    Last edited by Blau&Gruen; October 24, 2012 at 09:26 PM.
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    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    What they should have done - fire the ignorant government official which suppressed the concerns of at least two scientists who warned of the possibility of a strong earthquake and ban him from political office. Maybe fine him for doing so. No prison time.

    Let the rest, especially the scientists off, but never employ their advise ever again.
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  10. #10
    Squiggle's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    What they should have done - fire the ignorant government official which suppressed the concerns of at least two scientists who warned of the possibility of a strong earthquake and ban him from political office. Maybe fine him for doing so. No prison time.

    Let the rest, especially the scientists off, but never employ their advise ever again.
    LOL so your solution to an extremely illiberal proposition is yet another strong arm tactic of BANNING someone from higher office due to incompetence? How about the italian press merely skewers everyone whos guilty of incompetence in this affair and they take the appropriate personal and private damage, and the italian public moves on without setting dangerous legal precedents?

    Authoritarianism really is the zeitgeist now a days aint it?
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    Quote Originally Posted by Squiggle View Post
    LOL so your solution to an extremely illiberal proposition is yet another strong arm tactic of BANNING someone from higher office due to incompetence? How about the italian press merely skewers everyone whos guilty of incompetence in this affair and they take the appropriate personal and private damage, and the italian public moves on without setting dangerous legal precedents?

    Authoritarianism really is the zeitgeist now a days aint it?
    So you think that such blatantly autocratic people like the one in question should hold an office meant for public awareness? Failure to predict something is one thing, outright silencing potential causes for concern is another.
    Last edited by Admiral Piett; October 25, 2012 at 12:24 AM.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    What they should have done - fire the ignorant government official which suppressed the concerns of at least two scientists who warned of the possibility of a strong earthquake and ban him from political office. Maybe fine him for doing so. No prison time.

    Let the rest, especially the scientists off, but never employ their advise ever again.
    The scientist (I am only aware of one) who predicted a major earthquake may well have been critically wrong on two counts (http://www.newscientist.com/article/...slaughter.html).

    Also, it should be noted that the fact that there was a major earthquake does not indicate that his method was good. Stopped clocks are right twice a day, similarly, flawed methodologies throw up false positives every now and again.

    As to the jailing of the scientists, it's ridiculous. As far as I can tell, they acted exactly as they should have. The smaller shocks are, according to the evidence of previous earthquakes, not a good indicator for future, large earthquakes.

  13. #13
    Knight_Of_Ne's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    Who in their right mind would work there now knowing that if they fail to predict an earthquake correctly then they could face prison. All the scientists did was there job and yet they are being thrown to the lions.

    Charging them with manslaughter is just wrong. I wonder how many of the jury have mysteriously ended up with Ferrari's. What a disgusting farce.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight_Of_Ne View Post
    Who in their right mind would work there now knowing that if they fail to predict an earthquake correctly then they could face prison. All the scientists did was there job and yet they are being thrown to the lions.

    Charging them with manslaughter is just wrong. I wonder how many of the jury have mysteriously ended up with Ferrari's. What a disgusting farce.
    Some people will do anything for money, even work for the people who jailed the last guys. You still need to put dinner on the table.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaytaninc View Post
    Some people will do anything for money, even work for the people who jailed the last guys. You still need to put dinner on the table.
    jobs exist for these people outside of italy. These aren't garbage men or construction workers.
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  16. #16
    BSZ's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    This is merely the Italian authorities finding a scapegoat for insufficient government regulation on earthquake proof buildings, and followup control with it. Everyone knows that predicting earthquakes are next to impossible, and that minor earthquakes aren't usually followed by major ones. Even the best predictions have worse uncertainties than weather predictions made by a drunk while asleep.

    Merely opening this case in the first place is scandalous, actually convicting them is actually an indication of unlimited stupidity, an extreme unwillingness to learn, and possibly major bribes. In fact, I am wondering how the judge who convicted these people has enough brain activity to actually breathe, much less speak. This will only lead to making it harder for any Italian institution to get actual, qualified assessments from any scientist worth his salt.

  17. #17
    Blau&Gruen's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    Everyone knows that predicting earthquakes are next to impossible.
    Not everyone seems to be that informed, obviousely.
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    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    The government is at fault here for not banning earthquakes to begin with.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    God is still angry that Garibaldi united Italy.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Italian Scientists Prosecuted For Incorrect Assessment of Earthquake

    I'm reading a book on NATO's Gladio stay-behind-armies and Italy is one of the main focuses. Man, that country is a cesspool of corruption. With that in mind, I'd have to lean towards the judge taking bribes, being threatened, etc. to actually find these scientists guilty.
    Once a political decision has been reached to proceed with internal disturbances in Syria, CIA is prepared, and SIS (MI6) will attempt to mount minor sabotage and coup de main [sic] incidents within Syria, working through contacts with individuals. Incidents should not be concentrated in Damascus. [A] necessary degree of fear, [...] frontier incidents and [staged] border clashes [will] provide a pretext for intervention. The CIA and SIS should use [...] capabilities in both psychological and action fields to augment tension. [Funding should be provided for a] Free Syria Committee [and arms should be supplied to] political factions with paramilitary or other actionist capabilities.
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